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re: Scottie Pippen: MJ didn't win earlier in his career because he was a horrible team player
Posted on 5/29/23 at 10:47 pm to Bench McElroy
Posted on 5/29/23 at 10:47 pm to Bench McElroy
Another thing about Scottie Pippen, I said earlier I loved Scottie as a player during the Bulls championship years. He seemed to embrace his role. I know he was dissatisfied with his contract but he didn’t let it affect his play. And to me he embraced his role and Jordan’s role on those teams.
Only after Jordan left after 98, did Scottie seem unhappy with his role. But I think Phil knew Scottie’s limits as a player and didn’t want to force him to be something he was not - a go to scorer. He was the best player on the team but not a go to scorer, same as when Jordan played and that is why MJ and Scottie were such a great duo and it’s why I thought Scottie was so good on those teams.
It’s also why I thought Scottie properly praised MJ and why MJ praised Scottie after their playing days ended.
It also seems to prove that Scottie’s recent harsh criticisms of MJ are a result of hurt feelings and are not an accurate assessment but rather a tainted assessment of his feelings about MJ’s career and their time playing together.
Only after Jordan left after 98, did Scottie seem unhappy with his role. But I think Phil knew Scottie’s limits as a player and didn’t want to force him to be something he was not - a go to scorer. He was the best player on the team but not a go to scorer, same as when Jordan played and that is why MJ and Scottie were such a great duo and it’s why I thought Scottie was so good on those teams.
It’s also why I thought Scottie properly praised MJ and why MJ praised Scottie after their playing days ended.
It also seems to prove that Scottie’s recent harsh criticisms of MJ are a result of hurt feelings and are not an accurate assessment but rather a tainted assessment of his feelings about MJ’s career and their time playing together.
0
Posted on 5/30/23 at 8:43 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
So Lebron has been eliminated in the playoffs 12 times and has been on the brink of elimination 26 times to Kobe’s 10/19 and Jordan’s 7/13
Those 5 game series in Jordans era was a major help...
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:44 am to longhorn22
MJ didn't win early in his career because the teams around him weren't great.
Lebron didn't win early in his career because the teams around him weren't great.
MJ got help (Bulls signed Pippen and others), and he started winning championships. He won his first championship when he was 27 years old after being in the league for six seasons.
Bron got help (went to Miami to play with Wade/Bosh/others), and he started winning championships. He won his first championship when he was 27 years old after being in the league for eight seasons.
After MJ retired the second time and got old, he was still a relevant, all-star caliber player, but was a far cry from what he used to be. He won his final championship when he was 34 years old.
After Lebron got old, he's still been a relevant, all-star caliber player, but is a far cry from what he used to be. LeBron has been better later into his career than Jordan was. He's still playing, but he won his most recent championship when he was 35 years old.
All of this to say that MJ's and Bron's careers haven't been all that different. The big differences are that LeBron moved around more than Jordan, Jordan was more dominant at his peak, and Bron has been better in his final years. Those three things are all the MJ/LeBron debate comes down to: how do you value player movement, peak years, and longevity?
Wildcard: how much do you value MJ's NCAA championship ring at North Carolina?
Lebron didn't win early in his career because the teams around him weren't great.
MJ got help (Bulls signed Pippen and others), and he started winning championships. He won his first championship when he was 27 years old after being in the league for six seasons.
Bron got help (went to Miami to play with Wade/Bosh/others), and he started winning championships. He won his first championship when he was 27 years old after being in the league for eight seasons.
After MJ retired the second time and got old, he was still a relevant, all-star caliber player, but was a far cry from what he used to be. He won his final championship when he was 34 years old.
After Lebron got old, he's still been a relevant, all-star caliber player, but is a far cry from what he used to be. LeBron has been better later into his career than Jordan was. He's still playing, but he won his most recent championship when he was 35 years old.
All of this to say that MJ's and Bron's careers haven't been all that different. The big differences are that LeBron moved around more than Jordan, Jordan was more dominant at his peak, and Bron has been better in his final years. Those three things are all the MJ/LeBron debate comes down to: how do you value player movement, peak years, and longevity?
Wildcard: how much do you value MJ's NCAA championship ring at North Carolina?
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 11:46 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 1:59 pm to longhorn22
quote:
Those 5 game series in Jordans era was a major help...
The 5 game series were only first round series. After that, it was best of 7. In the 5 game series, Jordan went to a 5th game 2 times, winning both, all other 5 games series were either 3-1 or 3-0. What I’m trying to say is realistically only 2 series were even in danger of going 7 games. I don’t think he really benefits that much in series where he won or lost 3-1 or 3-0 by not having to play one or 2 more games. What’s truly remarkable is that out of 24 best of seven series, he only went to a game 7 2 times! Also, in seven game series, he went an amazing 20-4!
I think it’s really convenient for Pippen to leave out the fact that it took the bulls 4 year’s AFTER he was drafted to win their first championship and in the conference championship game 7 in 1990, the last series they would lose in the first 3-peat, he had a grand total of 2 points! Shooting a James Harden-like 1/10 from the field! Also convenient is how he doesn’t include the fact that they didn’t win anything until Phil got to the bulls so it wasn’t just him but mainly Phil that helped turn the team around!
Posted on 5/30/23 at 2:50 pm to RebelTheBear
Add to that Jordan lived a lifestyle not built for a long career.
Partied constantly, smoked like a refinery and didn't eat properly.
Today's NBA players would miss half a year living like Mike. They have full time nutritionist and cooks.
Partied constantly, smoked like a refinery and didn't eat properly.
Today's NBA players would miss half a year living like Mike. They have full time nutritionist and cooks.
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