re: Rockets win it all, Harden wins both MVPs, where does he rank among SGs all time?

Wade probably has.


But yeah, Harden has been trash.

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His last five years just utterly destroys the best five years of either of those guys.

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Wade has 6 years in a row of shooting 50% from the field or better, where he averaged better than 20 in 5/6. 3X champ, already a finals MVP, and 3X all defensive team 2nd team.

Harden's BEST year shooting he was 49% shooting. Never been on an all defensive team. Hasn't won anything yet, and let's just be honest hasn't been great in the playoffs this year.

He is a better scorer than Wade for sure, averaging probably 28 to Wades 23ish in that period.

I'm a Rockets fan who was in Miami with the big 3 and hated it, but come on. Wade isn't utterly destroyed by Harden. Harden's 5 extra points a game is pretty much negated by Wade's defense

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His last five years just utterly destroys the best five years of either of those guys.

Yes, destroys.

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when we're comparing the best among a position, we also discuss their overall play (including playoffs).

those guys amped it up or kept pace, but its frustrating as frick that Harden doesn't do that. He can win MVP and Finals MVP, but people won't put him above Kobe/Wade yet. Not until he's more consistent in the playoffs.

Look at the regular season, 30/5/9 shooting 44.9/36.7/85.8
Through the playoffs, 28/5/7 shooting 41.0/30.9/89.7

It is BEYOND frustrating that his shooting numbers drastically dip and its not something that is isolated for this year. His last 3 years he's been shooting 41%, drop of 3%.

Harden: 44.3/36.4/85.4 -> 42.0/32.9/87.3; TS% 60.8 -> 58.2; PER 23.7 -> 21.9

For reference:
Wade: 48.3/28.7/76.7 -> 47.4/33.8/78.0; TS% 55.7 -> 54.9; PER 23.9 -> 22.4
Kobe: 44.7/32.9/83.7 -> 44.8/33.1/81.6; TS% 55.0 -> 54.1; PER 22.9 -> 22.4
MJ: 49.7/32.7/83.5 -> 48.7/33.2/82.8; TS% 56.9 -> 56.8; PER 27.9 -> 28.6

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I’m just gonna take a guess that none of those guys have ever shot less than 25% from 3 in a series lol

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They're both average to poor 3pt shooters. I'm sure they both have.

Kobe and Wade are still better than Harden though, to this point.

bro he just played the best D In the league in Utah and now the other best D in Gsw. That’s what happens in the playoffs. And if he gets the Cavs in the finals don’t worry he will get that playoff PER up over 30 for the season against those scrubs. GSW is GOAT those guys can play D at an all time level. But so can CC w James out there.

So what's your excuse for him having three shitty games vs Minnesota, which included a 2/18 gem?

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bro he just played the best D In the league in Utah and now the other best D in Gsw. That’s what happens in the playoffs. And if he gets the Cavs in the finals don’t worry he will get that playoff PER up over 30 for the season against those scrubs. GSW is GOAT those guys can play D at an all time level. But so can CC w James out there.

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Bro, its not isolated for this year. its his majority of his career.

In his CAREER, he's only shot about the same or better than his regular season #s twice.
2010-2011: 43.6->47.5 (+3.9)
2014-2015: 44.0->43.9 (-0.1)

Every other year is a substantial dip.
2009-2010: 40.3->38.7 (-1.6)
2011-2012 49.1->43.5 (-5.6)
2012-2013 43.8->39.1 (-4.7)
2013-2014 45.6->37.6 (-8.0)
2015-2016 43.9->41.0 (-2.9)
2016-2017 44.0->41.3 (-2.7)
2017-2018 44.9->41.0 (-3.9)

The fact is, there's a substantial dip for him. And for someone that hits 44-45% to dip to 40-41% its starting to become an issue.

Different if someone's going from 50%->45%, its still above average.

Playoff D is vastly better than regular season, obviously you expect a relative dip. His dips are just every single year and its getting substantial.

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And Prime Wade's peak was higher than Kobe so Wade is up there as well.

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no. Kobe is as close to Jordan as we've seen. Kobe is easily better than Wade.

Harden has a chance to match or surpass Wade. I just don't see him surpassing Kobe.

I'll bet money if they make the finals CP3 wins MVP

Before this season harden has a 27/5/5 average with 58 TS% in the playoffs since joining CC. He may still have it. I haven’t done the calc. The only players In nba history with those averages are Lebron and Steph. The bar for harden is as high as it is for any player other than Lebron. That tells us how good he is.