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re: Richard Sherman says NFL Hall of Fame is watered down, become like a participation trophy
Posted on 2/16/22 at 10:06 am to sabes que
Posted on 2/16/22 at 10:06 am to sabes que
quote:
Skip Bayless has the best HOF criteria… “if I have to hesitate then it’s a no”
I actually don't completely disagree with that TBH. However, there are people who disagree as to whether or not there is hesitation, which is why these debates occur. I don't think you could, for instance, limit the HOF to only players who are unanimously supported for the HOF by every voter, which to me is what "if I have to hesitate, then no" would allude to. But from a voter to voter standpoint, then sure I agree 100% that if you have to hesitate then you probably shouldn't give that player your vote.
1
Posted on 2/16/22 at 10:07 am to lsutigers1992
quote:
The Bucs went from Lion-quality to Super Bowl champion in one year.
Lol that’s false and you act like Brady was their only change from the year before.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 10:10 am to sabes que
quote:
I like Sherman’s focus on not being the best QB in the league at any given time as well.
To me, it's more he's never been a top 5 QB in the league at any point in time. Top5 talent? Maybe but debatable. I've seen people talk about him having to go against all these different good QBs to excuse his lack of pro bowls or all-pro selections, but isn't that kind of the point of the HOF? To identify the absolute best players from each era of football? Can you honestly say that about Stafford? That's been the rub with Eli Manning too, despite his 2 super bowl wins. Do his super bowl wins overcome the fact that he was never, at any point, one of the best QBs in the NFL?
This post was edited on 2/16/22 at 10:11 am
Posted on 2/16/22 at 10:11 am to lsufball19
Agreed, some will hesitate on certain players while others don’t. But like you said, from a voter perspective, it’s great criteria. Like Peyton Manning, yes, no hesitation, Matt Stafford at this point, ehh hesitation. Chad Johnson, eh hesitation, Randy Moss, no hesitation.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:25 am to sugar71
Right.
All this says is that Sherman is wrong about his feelings. He will pontificate that he went to Stanford and is smarter than everyone else, but he is wrong
Stafford may not get into the HOF. The last 3 QBs in the HOF are Manning, Warner and Favre, and there aren't many who would say any of those 3 were "questionable" selections. The shoe ins of recent retirees are Brady, Big Ben, Brees and probably Eli. Add in Rodgers of current guys and that may be your list.
Too early for the Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert arguments to even start IMO.
You will have Rivers, Ryan, Stafford, and maybe Wilson all sniffing around over the next decade but I'm not sure any of those 4 get in
All this says is that Sherman is wrong about his feelings. He will pontificate that he went to Stanford and is smarter than everyone else, but he is wrong
Stafford may not get into the HOF. The last 3 QBs in the HOF are Manning, Warner and Favre, and there aren't many who would say any of those 3 were "questionable" selections. The shoe ins of recent retirees are Brady, Big Ben, Brees and probably Eli. Add in Rodgers of current guys and that may be your list.
Too early for the Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert arguments to even start IMO.
You will have Rivers, Ryan, Stafford, and maybe Wilson all sniffing around over the next decade but I'm not sure any of those 4 get in
This post was edited on 2/16/22 at 11:41 am
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:57 am to Buckeye06
quote:
You will have Rivers, Ryan, Stafford, and maybe Wilson all sniffing around over the next decade but I'm not sure any of those 4 get in
Russell Wilson will be a first ballot HOFer unless his career implodes. I don’t think there is any debate to that.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:59 am to Tornado Alley
quote:
Russell Wilson will be a first ballot HOFer unless his career implodes. I don’t think there is any debate to that.
Can anyone really say he’s a better QB than Stafford? He went to a team with literally the best defense in the league and an elite running game. He basically was on the Big Ben in 2005 path.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:59 am to Tornado Alley
Yep, plus people like Russ a lot.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 12:01 pm to TheeRealCarolina
quote:
Can anyone really say he’s a better QB than Stafford?
People who have working eyes, yes. Wilson has almost as many TDs and half as many INTs as Stafford in three less seasons. He has also added about 5,000 yards on the ground. He will finish top five in all-time passer rating.
This post was edited on 2/16/22 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 2/16/22 at 12:05 pm to TheeRealCarolina
quote:
He went to a team with literally the best defense in the league and an elite running game. He basically was on the Big Ben in 2005 path.
True, but then the defense and RB retired and Russ started putting up season after season with 30+ TDs, around 10 INTs, and 4000+ passing yards
Posted on 2/16/22 at 12:08 pm to Tornado Alley
Which is what Stafford was doing with significantly worse support from top to bottom with the Lions. Like I said, situations matter.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 12:52 pm to TheeRealCarolina
quote:
Which is what Stafford was doing with significantly worse support from top to bottom with the Lions.
Their averages per 17 games have been:
Wilson
3705 yards, 29 TDs, 8-9 INTs, 8.2 YPA, 6.2 TD%, 1.8 INT%
Stafford:
3845 yards, 25 TDS, 12-13 INTs, 7.3 YOA, 4.7 TD%, 2.4INT%
And that doesn't even include Wilson's 4700 rushing yards and 23 TDs
As far as receiving targets to throw to, I don't know how you can ignore Stafford having arguably the most dominant receiver of the last 25 years on his team. Wilson's receivers have mostly been pretty meh. I guess Metcalf is good but rarely puts up elite numbers and has also only been there a few years
Posted on 2/16/22 at 1:00 pm to Buckeye06
quote:I think he's wrong about the " participation trophy " stuff when only 1.5 % of players to ever suit it up are in the HOF. Absolutely there are borderline players that have made it but it's very exclusive.
All this says is that Sherman is wrong about his feelings.
Everson Walls is probably never getting in despite being a 5x pro bowler & 2x ALL pro & only CB to lead the league in ints 3x & top 3 all time Cornerbacks ints. Walls probably won't make it , but it isn't a " participation trophy" if he does.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 1:10 pm to SocraticTiger
quote:
3 All Pro.
That’s the edge of hof in my opinion.
Definitely worth consideration.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 1:36 pm to Tornado Alley
quote:
Russell Wilson will be a first ballot HOFer unless his career implodes. I don’t think there is any debate to that.
Really? I mean maybe but why?
LINK
I don't know how accurate this is, but this is supposed to give some sort of gauge on how likely a guy makes the HOF. Wilson is 33 now, so if he plays 5 more years he probably makes it but according this he's behind Rivers and Ryan (not sure I agree since he has a SB).
Below there is conversation about 3X all pros; Russell has never been first team and was only second team once so that matters.
I just don't think Wilson's case is as strong as "first ballot no doubter" today
Posted on 2/16/22 at 1:42 pm to TheeRealCarolina
quote:
Which is what Stafford was doing with significantly worse support from top to bottom with the Lions. Like I said, situations matter.
No, this is not true. Their stats are not comparable, mostly because Stafford completes less passes and tosses many more INTs. The INTs are the defining factor. Russ has tossed 87 in 158 games started, and Stafford has tossed 161 in 182. That's a massive difference. Stafford has 5 seasons with 16+ INTs while Russ has 0.
Furthermore, Russ's career QB rating is 10 points higher than Stafford's. Stafford has 2 seasons with a 100+ QB rating and five full seasons below 90.0. Russ's career rating is 101.8 and he has never been below 92.6.
Russ's numbers aren't similar to Stafford at all. His numbers are more akin to Steve Young than anyone, while Stafford's numbers more closely resemble Phillip Rivers or Ben Roethlisberger.
This post was edited on 2/16/22 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 2/16/22 at 1:43 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
I just don't think Wilson's case is as strong as "first ballot no doubter" today
I agree with you. Remember, I said he will be a first ballot HOFer "unless his career implodes."
Posted on 2/16/22 at 1:50 pm to Tornado Alley
Fair. If he plays 5 more seasons I would say he's probably in.
So back to Sherman's comments, they are way off considering guys like Rivers and Ryan may not get in, and they have certainly been great for 15 years each
So back to Sherman's comments, they are way off considering guys like Rivers and Ryan may not get in, and they have certainly been great for 15 years each
Posted on 2/16/22 at 2:30 pm to lsufball19
quote:
As far as receiving targets to throw to, I don't know how you can ignore Stafford having arguably the most dominant receiver of the last 25 years on his team. Wilson's receivers have mostly been pretty meh. I guess Metcalf is good but rarely puts up elite numbers and has also only been there a few years
Stafford played without Megatron in (at least) 72 of his 165 games as a Lion.
And again you are ignoring the situation with their franchises and their competition as well. Wilson was a game manager his first 5-6 years in the league. When he was doing the least, his team was having their most success. The Lions have been trash since the 50s. They literally were 0-16 before they drafted Stafford. No one would have succeeded in that situation. The fact that he was 74-90-1 with a bottom 3 franchise is incredible.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 2:44 pm to TheeRealCarolina
quote:
TheeRealCarolina
Do your balls tingle just to take adversarial positions on a daily basis and then act like you are intellectually superior while proving you are inferior?
It just makes the rest of us laugh
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