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Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:58 am to lsufanva
quote:
The difference is without the French Rafa isn't even in the discussion.
ok well too bad the french exists and clay is one of the surfaces of the game
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:04 am to gthog61
quote:
If Nadal was 3 years younger Federer would have had back to back grand slams
And how many if Rafa were 3 years older?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:13 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
I kind of hope Rafa hits 24, so there is no argument.
I’m a Rafa fan, but 1) I don’t think him simply winding up with 1 or 2 more than the other makes him the automatic GOAT. 2) Why do we not want an argument? That’s one of the greatest parts of having all 3 of these guys going against each other at the same time. We’re all extremely lucky to have been witnesses.
And how are we defining “GOAT,” exactly? Best career or who would win at their peak against the other guys’ peaks? Luckily we got to see it. Rafa on clay, Fed on grass, Novak probably on hard court. But they were all great on all surfaces. Just amazing, really.
I like Rafa the best, but after he dominated Federer in slams so much early, I thought that pretty much eliminated Fed from being considered the GOAT. The GOAT wouldn’t get so mentally dominated. And then Fed has this resurgence and starts beating Rafa and winning more slams. AFTER, most of the previous greats had already retired. All that to say, I think Fed has had the best career, but it’s super close, and there’s really no right answer.
Btw, I don’t care at all, but what are these guys on to be able to keep this level up so deep into their 30s? Something.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:36 am to AUFANATL
quote:
He didn't have any weaknesses. He could adjust his mental focus and style of play to excel under any circumstances, regardless of the surface, his opponent or his age/physical condition.
Record in Grand Slams
Since 2010 (Fed 29)
vs. Djok
2-10
Since 2008 (Fed 27)
vs. Nadal
2-7
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:50 am to AUFANATL
quote:
He didn't have any weaknesses
He didn't?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:51 am to lsufanva
quote:
It's akin to saying Nolan Ryan is the best pitcher of all time because he has more no hitters and strikeouts than everyone else
It's not at all akin to that. It's not even goddamn close to being akin to that.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:54 am to MidnightVibe
I feel like most people are fans of either Fed or Rafa, and so the arguments tend to get presented for them.
This being said, a very good argument can be made for Novak as GOAT, even sitting at 17.
I really don't think Federer has any good GOAT arguments left.
This being said, a very good argument can be made for Novak as GOAT, even sitting at 17.
I really don't think Federer has any good GOAT arguments left.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:54 am to Palm Beach Tiger
The problem with Rafa is the public perception.
Federer has that more recognizable face, attitude, public perception, etc., compared to Nadal.
Nadal also has the extensive injury history.
If Nadal wins more than Federer, he has the argument for best of all time in numbers, but people will push back based solely on the more recognizable and popular characteristics of Federer, IMO.
IMO, if Nadal passes Federer, he takes the rank.
My statements are just regarding how the rest of the public will view him.
Federer has that more recognizable face, attitude, public perception, etc., compared to Nadal.
Nadal also has the extensive injury history.
If Nadal wins more than Federer, he has the argument for best of all time in numbers, but people will push back based solely on the more recognizable and popular characteristics of Federer, IMO.
IMO, if Nadal passes Federer, he takes the rank.
My statements are just regarding how the rest of the public will view him.
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 11:57 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:55 am to MidnightVibe
quote:
I really don't think Federer has any good GOAT arguments left.
Of course you don't creepy bobby
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:56 am to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
Of course you don't creepy bobby
This is the best you got?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:56 am to Scruffy
quote:
The problem with Rafa is the public perception.
Federer has that more recognizable face, attitude, public perception, etc., compared to Nadal.
What??
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:57 am to MidnightVibe
quote:
This being said, a very good argument can be made for Novak as GOAT, even sitting at 17.
If you are talking absolute peak playing ability, it is probably Novak. He's just prone to epic mental collapses.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:57 am to barry
quote:
Federer has that more recognizable face, attitude, public perception, etc., compared to Nadal.
What??
I think Federer is the more recognizable/famous of the two. He certainly makes more money on endorsements.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:58 am to barry
quote:Related to general public vs people who are more in to tennis.
What??
I would bet that more people would recognize Federer than Nadal.
I mean, public perception plays a part in the dumb GOAT arguments.
Then you have the nostalgia factor.
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 10/12/20 at 11:58 am to MidnightVibe
quote:
I think Federer is the more recognizable/famous of the two. He certainly makes more money on endorsements.
I mean I won't argue that, but its not enough to be material, now if you want to say that about Joker......that's valid
Posted on 10/12/20 at 12:02 pm to lsufanva
quote:
Rafa is great but without the French would we really be talking about him as the goat?
He’s still won more US Opens than joker. And 13 of ANY grand slam is almost unbelievable. I mean, if someone said right now that there is an active player who has never won a grand slam that will one day win 13 Australians or 13 Wimbledon’s or any of the others...would you buy it? You absolutely would not.
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 10/12/20 at 12:02 pm to barry
OK, prime Rafa and prime Djok were better than post-prime Fed. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But the rest of the field wasn't, which was the overall point.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 12:13 pm to barry
quote:
If you are talking absolute peak playing ability, it is probably Novak. He's just prone to epic mental collapses.
Novak has two or three seasons of absolute dominance when both smug and Rafa were in the picture, and also a ridiculously underrated Andy Murray (and an occassionally great Stan and Delpo).
Rafa was definitely the best player on earth in 2008 and 2010, during prime Federer, but before prime Novak.
Rafa was also the best player on earth in 2013, so he's got that going for him.
Novak was best player on earth in 2011 and 2014-16 for sure. I'd say 2018-2019 as well.
2017 was a split Roger/Rafa year.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 12:14 pm to AUFANATL
quote:
OK, prime Rafa and prime Djok were better than post-prime Fed.
And prime Fed.
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