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Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:01 pm to Buck Magnum
Maybe I'm the minority of Rangers fans on this board but I wanted CJ back. Not at 5 years though. that's just dumb. Years 4-10 of the Pujols deal and 3-5 of the CJ contract will hopefully cripple the Angels in FA moves.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:04 pm to CunningLinguist
quote:
Years 4-10 of the Pujols deal and 3-5 of the CJ contract will hopefully cripple the Angels in FA moves.
i agree completely. basically concede the division to the angels for the next 2 years and work on growing from within.
there is no reason to vastly overpay free agents if you are the rangers
Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:08 pm to CunningLinguist
CJ was never #1 starter material to me. He got the job done but I am just not that upset that he is leaving.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:10 pm to Buck Magnum
He's a #2 starter and will play that role well for LAA. It's the years that they gave him that is more dumb than the money.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 9:44 pm to CunningLinguist
It's all good. Arte Moreno has more money than Davy Crockett.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 10:05 pm to loweralabamatrojan
That is what I think most don't realize. With no cap it doesn't matter if you overpay.
With the new TV deal they are getting its all good.
With the new TV deal they are getting its all good.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 10:12 pm to Quidam65
quote:
If Cards fans are anything like Angels fans, they'll give him a standing O should he return to St. Louis to play against his old team.
We welcomed Jack Clark!
Puljos deserved to get paid, good luck to him! I am glad StL is not saddled with that 10 year deal. StL got the best 8-10 years of his career and underpaid him most of the time.
StL ownership should have given him the 10 year deal three years ago after A-Rods deal, and should have wrapped him up before Holiday. StL is not going to fade into the shadows because of this, Wainwright was on the bench last year and they now have at least 22 mil to get a lefty in the bullpen, a SS, and an outfielder.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 10:13 pm to jcole4lsu
quote:
Years 4-10 of the Pujols deal and 3-5 of the CJ contract will hopefully cripple the Angels in FA moves
Except that 1) Oakland has no fan base (and may not even have a team in a few years), 2) Seattle has no talent, 3) Houston has no leadership, and 4) the Rangers -- well, they're the Rangers.
The Rangers weren't even seriously considering Pujols and CJ was going to leave. Hopefully they won't pull a boner and sign Prince (Moreland was terrible in the postseason but still has better postseason numbers than Prince does).
The problem is that they have nothing within (their AAA club failed in the first round -- again -- despite having the PCL's second-best record, and none of their other affiliates were anywhere near playoff contention) and very little to trade away to restock the system.
Posted on 12/9/11 at 9:07 am to DoUrden
I hope St. Louis is still a factor in the NL. A couple of my favorite Angels players have gone on to play in St. Louis, and I am glad that both Jim Edmonds and David Eckstein were able to help the Cards win a World Series in 2006. They were both fantastic players, and did well with both teams.
I think this trade, along with the acquisition of CJ Wilson will put the Angels back on top of the AL West. The impact when the Angels are at bat will be immediate as soon as Pujols enters the lineup. If the Angels pitching staff does its part, the Mighty Mighty Halos might just make a run at the World Series come October 2012.
I think this trade, along with the acquisition of CJ Wilson will put the Angels back on top of the AL West. The impact when the Angels are at bat will be immediate as soon as Pujols enters the lineup. If the Angels pitching staff does its part, the Mighty Mighty Halos might just make a run at the World Series come October 2012.
Posted on 12/9/11 at 9:10 am to loweralabamatrojan
Can you tell me the players the Cards got in "this trade"?
I'll hang up and listen
I'll hang up and listen
Posted on 12/9/11 at 9:14 am to geauxlsu07
If the reports are true:
Pujols turned down 9 yrs and $210 mill from St. Louis and also turned down 10 yrs and $275 mill from the Marlins.
WOW!!!
Pujols turned down 9 yrs and $210 mill from St. Louis and also turned down 10 yrs and $275 mill from the Marlins.
WOW!!!
Posted on 12/9/11 at 9:19 am to Quidam65
quote:
You mean like how Round Rock got bounced in the first round of the playoffs 3-1 despite having the second-best record in the Pacific Coast League? (Which was actually an improvement from the prior year when OKC was the affiliate; they lost 3-0 in the first round)
Or how none of the other minor league affiliates got anywhere near a playoff, and haven't in several years?
Sounds like their minor league system is following in the footsteps of the big club -- rarely get to the playoffs, do poorly when you get there.
Outside of Fielder (which would be a disaster if the Rangers sign him) that's why you're not hearing about any big moves or any early trades -- they know they have nothing with which to make a deal for talent, and once the Rangers fall apart around the All-Star break (usually they do it by Tax Day) they can get more in deals for Josh and Napdawg. If Nathan can do well in his recovery, they can deal him too.
Yet they continually have one the best rated farm systems in the league by the majority of media publications since JD rebuilt the system.
Go figure. It's not about wins and losses in the minor league... it's about developing players. I could fill my teams with nothing but AAAA players if it was about winning MILB championships.
You are clueless.
This post was edited on 12/9/11 at 9:20 am
Posted on 12/9/11 at 9:44 am to papz
quote:
It's not about wins and losses in the minor league... it's about developing players
But part of any player development is showing that, come playoff time, that player can produce. And that is not happening at either AAA Round Rock or AA Frisco (which wasn't even in the playoff race this season), the two highest levels of the Rangers farm system where the majority of the players expected to reach the majors will play.
Highly-rated farm systems have to show that they can do more than produce players with great statistics, they also need to show that the players can contend for playoff berths and, once they obtain them, make a credible showing. Losing twice in the first round of the AAA PCL playoffs and not even making the AA Texas League playoffs (which Frisco has done only once during JD's tenure, 2008) doesn't show that.
Posted on 12/9/11 at 9:55 am to geauxlsu07
quote:
Can you tell me the players the Cards got in "this trade"?
Geaux, if you're still listening, it is a fine pair of acquisitions by the Angels (Pujols & Wilson), and not a trade at all. Thanks for noticing my error.
This post was edited on 12/9/11 at 9:56 am
Posted on 12/9/11 at 10:33 am to Quidam65
Because obviously there's a direct correlation of minor league playoff wins to winning MLB games. How are the Kansas City Royals doing? Are you saying we don't have a top notch farm system?
Let me tell you why your train of thought is silly and why a win/loss minor league record is not that important.
-Players graduate to the MLB.
-Players graduate from level to level.
-The trading of top prospects to other organizations for Major League players.
-The Dan Johnson's of minor league baseball.
This one for you needs to explanation since you don't to get the developing part of prospects.
Joe Schmoe has a fantastic fastball with solid command of it and extremely weak secondary offerings. On his next start coach tells him he needs to throw 40 change ups regardless of results. Team loses...organization doesn't care b/c mission was accomplished.
Let me tell you why your train of thought is silly and why a win/loss minor league record is not that important.
-Players graduate to the MLB.
-Players graduate from level to level.
-The trading of top prospects to other organizations for Major League players.
-The Dan Johnson's of minor league baseball.
This one for you needs to explanation since you don't to get the developing part of prospects.
Joe Schmoe has a fantastic fastball with solid command of it and extremely weak secondary offerings. On his next start coach tells him he needs to throw 40 change ups regardless of results. Team loses...organization doesn't care b/c mission was accomplished.
Posted on 12/9/11 at 10:44 am to CunningLinguist
quote:
He's a #2 starter and will play that role well for LAA. It's the years that they gave him that is more dumb than the money.
CJ does not have to be the #2. He is the #3. That rotation is staaaaaaaaaaacked.
Is the Pujols deal frontloaded?
Posted on 12/9/11 at 10:51 am to Zou Animal
Cards fans are knowledgeable of the game and the situation. This is correct. They also understand the financial aspect of the game. As a result, I think Cards fans are WAY less "butthurt" by Pujols taking the money. Where any sort of "butthurt" comes in is with the level of admiration and adoration that Pujols has received from Cardinals fans and national media.
From an early stage, Pujols has been compared to some of the best players in baseball history. As he continued his career, Cards fans thought Pujols might just be another Stan Musial. He didn't seem to care about money, as Stan Musial so famously didn't (see: Musial giving his raise back to the organization after a bad season because he didn't deserve it). Because Cardinals fans placed him on this pedestal, giving him their love and thinking that same love was reciprocated, they were a little disappointed when he left for Anaheim. It's not that they don't understand or even that their mad with Pujols, just that they're disappointed that he didn't want to be the modern era Stan the Man, or Joe Dimaggio, or Johnny Bench, men that went down in history as some of the greatest players ever while also being associated with only one team (Cards, Yanks, Reds).
So, if that's being "butthurt," then fine. Cards fans are a little butthurt. It's not nearly on the level that most LSU fans were with Saban, or the entire city of Cleveland with Baby Bron Bron.
Personally, I think it's more of a disappointment because we know what he would have been, even if he had just retired this year. Instead, half of his career (literally) will be as an Angel, a franchise with 1/10 the history of the Cardinals, because of money. It will dilute his legacy. Regardless of what anyone says.
From an early stage, Pujols has been compared to some of the best players in baseball history. As he continued his career, Cards fans thought Pujols might just be another Stan Musial. He didn't seem to care about money, as Stan Musial so famously didn't (see: Musial giving his raise back to the organization after a bad season because he didn't deserve it). Because Cardinals fans placed him on this pedestal, giving him their love and thinking that same love was reciprocated, they were a little disappointed when he left for Anaheim. It's not that they don't understand or even that their mad with Pujols, just that they're disappointed that he didn't want to be the modern era Stan the Man, or Joe Dimaggio, or Johnny Bench, men that went down in history as some of the greatest players ever while also being associated with only one team (Cards, Yanks, Reds).
So, if that's being "butthurt," then fine. Cards fans are a little butthurt. It's not nearly on the level that most LSU fans were with Saban, or the entire city of Cleveland with Baby Bron Bron.
Personally, I think it's more of a disappointment because we know what he would have been, even if he had just retired this year. Instead, half of his career (literally) will be as an Angel, a franchise with 1/10 the history of the Cardinals, because of money. It will dilute his legacy. Regardless of what anyone says.
Posted on 12/9/11 at 11:01 am to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Personally, I think it's more of a disappointment because we know what he would have been, even if he had just retired this year. Instead, half of his career (literally) will be as an Angel, a franchise with 1/10 the history of the Cardinals, because of money. It will dilute his legacy. Regardless of what anyone says.
That's hyperbole. The Cardinals have been around for 129 years and the Angels have been around for 50. So yeah, the Cardinals have more than twice the history of the Angels, but not nearly the 9/10's you referenced. Pujols will long be remembered for his feats on and off the baseball field whether he sizzles or fizzles in Anaheim. And the latter happening is highly unlikely.
Even if you view the Cards as baseball blue-bloods and the Angels as upstarts with only half a century of history behind them, the Angels are doing something positive with their acquisitions in the present, and that's what matters.
Posted on 12/9/11 at 11:34 am to loweralabamatrojan
quote:
the Angels are doing something positive with their acquisitions in the present, and that's what matters.
Can't disagree with that and have no problem it. I hope they do well.
quote:
That's hyperbole.
I guess. If you're looking at nothing but length of time in existence. But they are not nearly as storied a franchise as the Cardinals. They only have 1 World Series title and only 1 penant. Which, hey, I'm not knocking it, just saying, they don't have nearly the history of the Cardinals. The Cardinals are baseball blue bloods, like you said. The Angels aren't upstarts, they just haven't succeeded on the level of the Cardinals, or the Reds, or the Pirates, or the Yankees, or the Red Sox... The list goes on. Again, not doggin the Angels, they're doing well and playing good baseball and seem to be doing it the right way. Just saying, going down in Angels' history as their greatest player ever is not the same as going down in Cardinals' history as their greatest player ever.
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