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Message
re: Pujols & CJ Wilson to Angels
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:51 pm to Zou Animal
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:51 pm to Zou Animal
quote:
I guess legacy isn't as important as an additional $30 million more dollars than the Cardinals offered.
I think the MLBPA had something to do with this...
0
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:52 pm to BallHawk
quote:
I don't think he factored in all that much, but that's just my opinion.
Maybe not during the stretch, but factor in a game or two early in the season that they don't win without him, and they don't catch the Braves.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:56 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
but in 2011 with him gone for a month and the way Freese, Berkman, and the pitching staff played in the playoffs they could've won without him.
They made it into the WC by one game in the standings. Even with Pujols having one of his worst seasons his WAR was 5.4, indicating that they would have needed a pretty adequate substitution to make it without him. A game was all it took to swing that race.
I don't want to be a dick about this but aren't people missing the point?
I think they are if they are somehow arguing you needed to keep AP to succeed at a similar level. Of course you would like to keep the best hitter on baseball but he's not being paid like a rookie or even a guy in the first 5-7 years of his career anymore.
If you talk about paying a guy 22-25 million a year you are talking about not paying other players 22-25 million a year. Esp if we are talking about a ten year contract you will do much better paying 2-5 quality players that 25 million per than gambling all of it on one player.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:56 pm to LSUBoo
Valid point. Obviously he was a needed piece, but you can't know how good Allen Craig would've been for the entire year. Granted, that's a big what IF of course.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:56 pm to LSUBoo
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/8/11 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:57 pm to molsusports
quote:
To the STL management and fans it should be about returned production related to salary. Pujols was already making a very high salary that made his less valuable per dollar than players like Berkman on the team this year.
Hell, in terms of bang per buck, Berkman may have been the most valuable player in baseball (unless there is some stud still making 500K a year from his initial contract).
I do not think the Cards would have even made the playoffs in 2006 or 2011 without Albert. They barely made it in. Unless their replacement was at least a near all-star caliber player, then it would it seem unlikely.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:58 pm to OWLFAN86
I was going to make a CJ Wilson "i hope you die" joke but I decided I shouldn't. Trust me, it was hilarious.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:01 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
I do not think the Cards would have even made the playoffs in 2006 or 2011 without Albert. They barely made it in. Unless their replacement was at least a near all-star caliber player, then it would it seem unlikely.
Let me make you Cardinals GM for the next ten years
Given a limited budget of about 100 million a year would you spend 22 million plus a year (for the next ten years) on Pujols... or do you think you will win more games spending that 22 million a year on other players instead?
I can maybe see the argument for paying him 22 million per for the next 3-4 years but for the 6-7 years after that? No question the better judgement would be to pick up free agents or use that money to retain your quality veterans instead.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:03 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Hell, in terms of bang per buck, Berkman may have been the most valuable player in baseball (unless there is some stud still making 500K a year from his initial contract).
Kershaw would be one of those.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:09 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
The Cardinals are a team built on history and tradition. Their fan base will not go away, and their ability to have a winning ball club will not go away.
Absolutely. And this is the point I've been trying to make when it comes to the Rangers.
The Cardinals could have lost the WS and it wouldn't have affected them one bit. Their history and tradition will easily allow them to attract players who aren't seeking to break the bank, yet play for a real WS opportunity.
The Rangers, meanwhile, have a "history and tradition" of nothing but failure. They had to win the WS this year (especially after failing miserably in 2010) to break the cycle. Unfortunately they didn't, and those seeing how bad Butler is this year in college basketball is what you will see with the 2012 Rangers.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:13 pm to molsusports
quote:
If the Cardinals go into a post Bonds Pirates like shell and don't sign anyone worth a rat's arse in the foreseeable future they will be in trouble. But if they sign good players for reasonable contracts they will do better in terms of wins and losses/playoff appearances than they would if they tried to keep AP at the price he wanted
My concern is that with an unproven manager, the Cards may have a difficult time getting good players for reasonable pay to play at or become great players for reasonable pay. When LaRussa was managing, good players became great. Great became exceptional. I just hope Matheny can work the same magic, especially since we have to assume that Dave Duncan will hit the road soon. Hopefully, the Big Mac Attack can continue to help develop talent
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:22 pm to SCUBABlake
quote:
Then how did they get the players they have now, coming off of a WS loss?
Trades and draft picks mainly. The Tex deal was the only break the Rangers ever got; knowing he wasn't coming back they were able to finally put some food in the pantry (so to speak). For that JD deserves a
. But now the food has been eaten (again so to speak) and the pantry is bare, with nothing to trade either to get top-notch talent or to restock the system.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:26 pm to Quidam65
How much money will the Angels make off of Albert breaking the HR record? AP is a revenue generator in my opinion.
I just hope this isn't another Mo Vaughn situation.
I just hope this isn't another Mo Vaughn situation.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:27 pm to molsusports
quote:
Let me make you Cardinals GM for the next ten years
Given a limited budget of about 100 million a year would you spend 22 million plus a year (for the next ten years) on Pujols... or do you think you will win more games spending that 22 million a year on other players instead?
plus, Carpenter has 2 more years at $14 mil and Holliday has 5 more years at $16 mil.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:27 pm to molsusports
quote:
Let me make you Cardinals GM for the next ten years
Given a limited budget of about 100 million a year would you spend 22 million plus a year (for the next ten years) on Pujols... or do you think you will win more games spending that 22 million a year on other players instead?
I can maybe see the argument for paying him 22 million per for the next 3-4 years but for the 6-7 years after that? No question the better judgement would be to pick up free agents or use that money to retain your quality veterans instead.
What? My post was not about re-signing Pujols being a good idea or bad idea. I simply said that he was necessary in order for them to make the playoffs in those two, specific seasons where they did not make it in my much. That is all.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:31 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
What? My post was not about re-signing Pujols being a good idea or bad idea. I simply said that he was necessary in order for them to make the playoffs in those two, specific seasons where they did not make it in my much
Right, but that doesn't seem like much of a point. Those years the Cardinals making the playoffs was such an incredibly close thing you could have said the same thing about 5-10 players on the team. Not just Pujols.
If the Cardinals didn't have Carpenter for example they would have zero WS wins and fewer playoff appearances in the last ten years
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:41 pm to molsusports
I don't really care anymore. Seriously, good luck to Albert. Time to move forward.
I feel good because if you watched the playoffs and the World Series (especially game 6), you know for certain that God himself is a Cardinals fan. I'll take the power of God and the rally squirrel over AP any day.
I feel good because if you watched the playoffs and the World Series (especially game 6), you know for certain that God himself is a Cardinals fan. I'll take the power of God and the rally squirrel over AP any day.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:51 pm to Zou Animal
quote:
I feel good because if you watched the playoffs and the World Series (especially game 6), you know for certain that God himself is a Cardinals fan. I'll take the power of God and the rally squirrel over AP any day.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 2:57 pm to LoveThatMoney
...and God comes free with a no-trade clause. We have him locked in forever. We get infinitely much more bang for the buck with God being a Cardinal than with Poo-holes being a Cardinal.
Just sayin...
Just sayin...
This post was edited on 12/8/11 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 12/8/11 at 3:08 pm to Zou Animal
quote:
Exactly. If you're already super rich, why not retire in the city where the team showcased you and the fans worshipped you? I guess legacy isn't as important as an additional $30 million more dollars than the Cardinals offered.
butt hurt much, give pujols a break. he already took one hometown discount with his last contract. he took 15 when he should have gotten a-rod money. and he helped deliver the cardinals 2 championships in that time.
if, a team offered him 30 million more and cardinals wouldn't match, why should he stay. he already gave y'all the 100 million dollar discount. i don't blame the cardinals for not matching, it was a smart baseball move on their part.
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