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Message
re: Pujols & CJ Wilson to Angels
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:17 pm to Rohan2Reed
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:17 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
Well said. As a neutral observer of this, I have to say it saddens me as a baseball fan. Not very often a player comes along like Pujols who has the opportunity to become forever engrained in the fabric of a city and franchise. Couldn't care less about his motivations.. money, greed or otherwise. Just unfortunate for annals of the game that he didn't stick with STL.
While I agree with this mostly, I diagree at the same time.
Does St Louis win either of their recent world titles without Pujols? Probably not. Do they receive the press they have gotten without Pujols? Probably not.
It's disappointing to me as a fan of baseball that St Louis could not pony up the cash and keep baseballs best player for the rest of his career. With everything he's brought to the city and the franchise, he deserved to get paid and he didn't. I'm not upset with him for leaving.
3
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:19 pm to paperstreet
quote:
It's disappointing to me as a fan of baseball that St Louis could not pony up the cash and keep baseballs best player for the rest of his career. With everything he's brought to the city and the franchise, he deserved to get paid and he didn't. I'm not upset with him for leaving.
Did you miss my point? I'm not upset with him for leaving either.
Also, the size of the markets can't be overlooked. The current structure of the two teams also comes into play. Angels are old and have money going to come off the books. Cardinals are rather young and will need dough to keep some of their current potential stars in the near future.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:21 pm to Rohan2Reed
Pujols makes over 154,000 per game.
That is fricking obscene.
That is fricking obscene.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:22 pm to paperstreet
quote:
Does St Louis win either of their recent world titles without Pujols? Probably not.
whoah whoah whoah
Pujols didn't win STL a single game in the WS this year. He had one great game when the rest of the team had already scored a ton of runs and was pretty disappointing otherwise. Credit Berkman, Carpenter, and Friese a lot more than Pujols this year
and in 2006 it was Eckstein, Rolen, Carpenter, and Wainwright who carried the team in teh playoffs, not Pujols.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:22 pm to Rohan2Reed
Market size definitely plays, but I do wonder if STL can compete this year only because they have some unproven players stepping up into some key roles with Wainwright coming off TJ surgery. Rumor also has it they're willing to trade both Kyle Lohse and Jake Westbrook. I'm usually wrong about them though, so we'll see.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:25 pm to Stagg8
quote:
I think you're greatly misinterpreting the average Cardinals fan reaction to this signing.
I've looked at some Cardinals forums. Most of the fans are a little butthurt, but are pretty glad the Cardinals didn't try to overtop the Angels with this. To put it simply, we (the Cardinals) don't have that kind of coin. And for me personally, as a born and raised St. Louisan and die hard Cards fan, I've been saying the same thing since the debacle started last year: "If he wants to bankrupt the team, that's find. Send him away. The Cardinals are a team built on history and tradition. Their fan base will not go away, and their ability to have a winning ball club will not go away. Wish him the best, but get him out of here."
And they did.
Course, they f'd it all up when they didn't re-up his contract 2 or 3 years ago, but whatever.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:26 pm to Rohan2Reed
I think the real loser in all of this is the Astros.
Pujols is always a step ahead.
Pujols is always a step ahead.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:28 pm to molsusports
It was a video
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:29 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
Course, they f'd it all up when they didn't re-up his contract 2 or 3 years ago, but whatever.
Olney mentioned this today on The Herd...said that they should've extended Pujols before signing Holliday. I have to agree with that.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:29 pm to Rohan2Reed
quote:
Did you miss my point? I'm not upset with him for leaving either.
Not at all. I was more adding my own two cents.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:29 pm to DrSteveBrule
He can make almost 40k for an IBB.
frick. My. Life.
That's assuming a 4 AB game.
frick. My. Life.
That's assuming a 4 AB game.
This post was edited on 12/8/11 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:30 pm to molsusports
quote:
Pujols didn't win STL a single game in the WS this year. He had one great game when the rest of the team had already scored a ton of runs and was pretty disappointing otherwise. Credit Berkman, Carpenter, and Friese a lot more than Pujols this year
and in 2006 it was Eckstein, Rolen, Carpenter, and Wainwright who carried the team in teh playoffs, not Pujols.
Right. But do they even make the playoffs without Pujols? I'm not so sure.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:34 pm to paperstreet
quote:
It's disappointing to me as a fan of baseball that St Louis could not pony up the cash and keep baseballs best player for the rest of his career. With everything he's brought to the city and the franchise, he deserved to get paid and he didn't. I'm not upset with him for leaving
He does deserve to get paid. I agree with you there. And for him, it was the perfect storm: The game's best manager (imo) retired, Pu had just won his second world series in case anyone thought the first was a fluke, and his contract was up. What else is left for the man to do? He's been in the league for just at a decade. He's got a lot of life left (though maybe not 10 yrs). At this point, he could retire and go down in the history of baseball as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, players of all time. He has nothing left to prove. Now he just needs to get paid.
I am in no way shape or form upset with him leaving.
But as I've said before, Pujols did not make or break the Cardinals' franchise. To say otherwise is ignorant. If you think so, you clearly don't know St. Louis. Even when the Cards suck, the average attendance is well over the average and they routinely received coverage prior to Pujols because they routinely won games.
It does suck that he left, because I would've loved to have him retire as a Cardinal and be a part of the history of this team like Stan the Man, but financially, we couldn't make it work. Good luck to him.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:36 pm to paperstreet
quote:
Right. But do they even make the playoffs without Pujols? I'm not so sure.
in both 2011 and 2006 them making the playoffs was a very close thing so probably not... but if you took away any relevant player from the Cardinals in 2006 or 2011 they would have missed. So that statement strikes me as misleading
To the STL management and fans it should be about returned production related to salary. Pujols was already making a very high salary that made his less valuable per dollar than players like Berkman on the team this year.
If the Cardinals go into a post Bonds Pirates like shell and don't sign anyone worth a rat's arse in the foreseeable future they will be in trouble. But if they sign good players for reasonable contracts they will do better in terms of wins and losses/playoff appearances than they would if they tried to keep AP at the price he wanted
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:38 pm to molsusports
250 TRILLION PENNIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:43 pm to paperstreet
quote:
Right. But do they even make the playoffs without Pujols? I'm not so sure.
The stats say no. Unless they replaced him with someone damn near as good as he was.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:47 pm to LSUBoo
2006 was Pujols's best offensive year and he finished 2nd in MVP voting. I'd have to agree that that season they don't get to the WS without him, but in 2011 with him gone for a month and the way Freese, Berkman, and the pitching staff played in the playoffs they could've won without him. Allen Craig stepped up too. I think they'll be OK next season without him too, but I just don't know how good Descalso, Greene, and Craig will be for an entire season is all.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:48 pm to BallHawk
quote:
but in 2011 with him gone for a month and the way Freese, Berkman, and the pitching staff played in the playoffs they could've won without him.
They made it into the WC by one game in the standings. Even with Pujols having one of his worst seasons his WAR was 5.4, indicating that they would have needed a pretty adequate substitution to make it without him. A game was all it took to swing that race.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:50 pm to molsusports
quote:
I say fascinating because apparently more than 50% of people don't think it affects AP's legacy leaving STL. That is weird to me. Of course it affects his legacy when if he stayed he could have established himself as the best player ever to play for the NL's best franchise
Exactly. If you're already super rich, why not retire in the city where the team showcased you and the fans worshipped you? I guess legacy isn't as important as an additional $30 million more dollars than the Cardinals offered.
Posted on 12/8/11 at 1:50 pm to LSUBoo
Good point, but I never bought into WAR only because the way Berkman, Freese, and some others were playing down the stretch and the way the Braves were playing too... I don't think he factored in all that much, but that's just my opinion.
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