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Pitching longevity question
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:24 pm
Friends, what is everyone's theory as to why there so many pitchers in the MLB and even college that are getting injured at a high level? I read a book about Nolan Ryan, and he specifically said the reason for his success was recovery after games, and staying fit between starts. He also said kids nowadays are throwing way too much at 12 and 13 with undeveloped arms. Especially a 9th grader throwing curves , etc and travel ball ruins more than it fundamentally helps. Ryan said he didn't start throwing breaking balls until he was 16 or 17. I am curious to what everyone thinks.
14
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:29 pm to ChestRockwell
I mean we have 7 and 8 year olds throwing 60 pitches playing travel ball on the weekend. Kids throw harder, they throw more, many no longer play multiple sports but focus on baseball year round.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:30 pm to ChestRockwell
Too many pitches too young, and max effort when you’re out there. Look at velocity, it’s not that the human body has changed in 20 years, it’s the even starters now are throwing max effort.
Kids should go back to playing more sports, not 70 games at 9 years old
Kids should go back to playing more sports, not 70 games at 9 years old
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:31 pm to Skenes
Yes I know that. And many are done before puberty.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:32 pm to ChestRockwell
I'm also convinced it's cause kids do it year round. When I was a kid you played whatever sport was in season. Kids need variety.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:32 pm to ChestRockwell
quote:
Nolan Ryan
Freak. Can’t judge anything based on him
quote:
recovery after games, and staying fit between starts
The knowledge, specificity, & adherence to program has increased by light years since he pitched
quote:
kids nowadays are throwing way too much at 12 and 13 with undeveloped arms
Don’t think this is even debatable
quote:
breaking balls
This is the reigning theory. But today’s pitchers don’t worry about if they’ll have TJ, they worry about when. It’s like a dam right of passage. And now it’s not a death sentence like it was 20 years ago
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:32 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Interesting point. Yeah, the parents are burning out their own kids, and they have .000005 % of ever making it to the show.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:37 pm to Schmelly
Yes medical technology has changed, but has it really been put to use for the greater good ? How many young players in MLB have gotten Tommy John surgery nowadays? Its widespread. Ryan wasn't necessarily a freak, he just threw harder, and learned how to pitch in the minors and get outs.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:42 pm to ChestRockwell
All of this is correct. All this to try and prepare little Braxxytxn for when he will one day stand in THE JUDGE’S COURT. Too much too soon. Let kids be kids.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 7:52 pm to JerryTheKingBawler
Judge needs to quit playing the outfield. Looks like he's on roller skates. Makes Matsui look like Willie Mays.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:00 pm to ChestRockwell
It isn't how much kids pitch now, as much as what they throw.
Strong durable arms throwing 2 and 4 seam fastballs and *maybe* a simple changeup, are more than enough. Trying to teach junior a slider or a slurve or whatever else you like, is killer.
Kids throw less now, too, and it is more regimented; we don't teach pitchers to pace themselves through games, either-- it is a lot of 'throw it as hard as you can until you can't'-- less emphasis on changing speeds without throwing breaking stuff, and less emphasis on location over velocity.
We didn't forget as a species how to throw a baseball. We have overspecialized and micro-trained ourselves into a corner, now, where a complete game is nearly what a shutout used to be, and a complete game shutout is nearly what a no-hitter used to be.
Strong durable arms throwing 2 and 4 seam fastballs and *maybe* a simple changeup, are more than enough. Trying to teach junior a slider or a slurve or whatever else you like, is killer.
Kids throw less now, too, and it is more regimented; we don't teach pitchers to pace themselves through games, either-- it is a lot of 'throw it as hard as you can until you can't'-- less emphasis on changing speeds without throwing breaking stuff, and less emphasis on location over velocity.
We didn't forget as a species how to throw a baseball. We have overspecialized and micro-trained ourselves into a corner, now, where a complete game is nearly what a shutout used to be, and a complete game shutout is nearly what a no-hitter used to be.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:09 pm to ChestRockwell
What? You realize he is an above average RF and played league average CF?
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:11 pm to BoardReader
You don't make your arm stronger by resting it. A pitcher's arm needs steady work.
There is no real evidence that rest, or pitch counts extend a pitchers career. Obviously, proper form, stretching, targeted weight training, and other things are helpful, but some guys just have a finite number of pitches in their arm.
Look at Ryan. He worked incredibly hard on his legs, and keeping his weight down.
It helps that his arm was touched by God.
Some of those old pitchers threw ridiculous numbers of pitches and innings. That would be considered abuse now.
There is no real evidence that rest, or pitch counts extend a pitchers career. Obviously, proper form, stretching, targeted weight training, and other things are helpful, but some guys just have a finite number of pitches in their arm.
Look at Ryan. He worked incredibly hard on his legs, and keeping his weight down.
It helps that his arm was touched by God.
Some of those old pitchers threw ridiculous numbers of pitches and innings. That would be considered abuse now.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:13 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
You don't make your arm stronger by resting it. A pitcher's arm needs steady work.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:15 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
That's basically straight from...
Tommy John.
Tommy John.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:18 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
That's basically straight from... Tommy John.
An 82 year old who doesn’t know anything about the science of how this shite works?
Ok cool, hook em
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:26 pm to ChestRockwell
Ryan specifically said kids should be throwing more but with repeatable mechanics. With better conditioning and recovery. Not sure what book you read but I'm sure his opinion hasn't changed.
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:28 pm to ChestRockwell
quote:Idk what the device i saw was called but this kid was using some sort of electronic muscle stimulator at the park after he pitched and proceedes to pitch a second game later that evening.
Yes medical technology has changed, but has it really been put to use for the greater good ?
Parents and today's coaches are going to frick up so many kid's arms trying to get to the pros. Lots of kids are going to be bad off when they realize they aren't major league material
Posted on 6/13/25 at 8:33 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Too many pitches too young, and max effort when you’re out there. Look at velocity, it’s not that the human body has changed in 20 years, it’s the even starters now are throwing max effort. Kids should go back to playing more sports, not 70 games at 9 years old
Nailed it.
Great starters used to find ways to try to get through 9 innings. That meant you weren’t throwing max velocity all the time. Today’s pitchers go all out because they know they’re only asked to go 4-6 innings. They’ve essentially dumbed things down.
Also, pitchers and ballplayers of yesteryear would play football, basketball, run track, etc. Now, if you want Braxtynn to go D1, he’s throwing year round. And travel ball coaches know the importance of winning those rings, so they don’t give a shite about a pitch count. These pitchers aren’t even taught to “pitch”, they’re taught to throw by Brookslynn’s dad who works in finance.
The culture of youth baseball is absolute dog shite. Travel ball does more bad than good IMO, and I think it’s no coincidence that arm issues have gone up along with the popularity of travel ball.
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