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re: No way in hell will this be taken seriously
Posted on 5/10/17 at 9:47 pm to Madking
Posted on 5/10/17 at 9:47 pm to Madking
quote:And Harden's is even more ridiculous since he had a 0.493 three point rate. Most players who have a high free throw rate aren't typically outside shooters, and if they are, they also shoot a lot of close range shots.
I agree with you there Harden mostly.
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Posted on 5/10/17 at 9:49 pm to buckeye_vol
That's debatable because now you have stretch ayers and can spread the d so thin you're basically in one on ones all the time but yes it has taken a lot if the ISO game out. As far as the old bulls are concerned the triangle would sti be effective as you saw with the Lakers and Kobe/Shaq then later with Kobe and the two bigs. So I don't think it would be as effective as ppl project. Also remember that this Bulls teams were defensive teams not high octane scoring teams they usually had 3 double digit scorers at most and were most deadly when Jordan and Pippen picked up their men full court causing havoc quick shots and turnovers.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 9:49 pm to Madking
quote:You gotta help me out here. You say it's a given that the way the old rules were set up made it tougher for great scorers to score.
Man to man defenses can vary most are trying to force a player to help d or their best rim protector others try to trap the ball out of the best players hands. There are tons of different man styles.
Teams can still play the same defense like in the 90s, but as we all know, teams do not do that against great scorers. My question is why? If the old way made it tougher, why doesn't every team simply play the old iso style/hard double defense when LeBron has the ball(as I said, we ALL know that virtually never happens)???
Posted on 5/10/17 at 9:53 pm to shel311
Ok these are two different things. Fundamentally as a team the zone is easier to score on. What I mean by the older eras is the sheer physicality of play that was allowed plus the shot blockers that stopped baskets in the paint. Normally you'd see the great shot blockers paired with a brutal physical power forward who could stop the ball short of the rim while the shot locker came over and erased the close shots.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 9:55 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 9:56 pm to buckeye_vol
Oh yea the James Harden stuff is just not fun to watch. Half of it is acting which is so ridiculous. Go to youtube and look up refs negotiating calls with players it's sickening the way the officials run games.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:00 pm to shel311
Just look at the shot block leaders from that era compared to now. Most of the time it's more than double the amount for the league leaders. Now I'm not sure it's completely a rules thing I think the one and done and the early entries have stunted the big mans growth. Usually they come along slower and need time in college to learn angles help defense and all the nuances that turn you into a great shot blocker. It's a defensive thing so the fact that there are more stretch players shouldn't be affecting shot blocking like it doesn't post scoring. There no reason a guy like Dwight Howard shouldn't have had similar shot blocking numbers to Alonzo Mourning who per minute still had the same rate in 06 that he always had.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:02 pm to Madking
quote:Well the Cavs were the most efficient ISO team, and it only resulted in 0.99 points per possession, with the median at 0.87 . Team ISO
That's debatable because now you have stretch ayers and can spread the d so thin you're basically in one on ones all the time but yes it has taken a lot if the ISO game out.
I don't know what it was before, but given how inefficient it is now, I'm guessing it was a far more efficient option.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:05 pm to buckeye_vol
It could be your teams ability to protect your isolation players. For example Mello a very good ISO player doesn't have the outside shooting to protect him the way Lebron and Kyrie do. Triangle players like Shaq and Kobe's teams always led the NBA in three point shooting. Almost every team shaq played on led the league in three point shooting.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:06 pm to Madking
I apologize that I've only made it through page 22, but can we stop the Jordan and Lebron comparisons. I want to hear the argument of how Lebron isn't number 2 in history. Who's better than him outside of Jordan. I think Bird, Magic, Kareem, and Oscar have been mentioned.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:10 pm to BuckeyesAndBulldogs
Shaq has to be in there too and Kobe. And Lebron isn't finished yet he has time to move up but when guys are so close in comparison you have to go to titles. And this narrative that Lebrons teams are inferior is crazy if you're not lazy and really look at those other guys teams. The big strikes against him are the two historic beat downs from the Spurs and the loss to Dallas. You take those away or at least make it a competitive series in 2014 and he's like 5-2 which puts him is more if a rare spot.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:15 pm to BuckeyesAndBulldogs
Had Shaq not been lazy and took bad advice he could've had a very strong case for the top spot. Eras play a part too, you put Shaq in this era and it's scary what he'd do to these centers you throw Pistol Pete into this era and his career is totally different.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 10:19 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:17 pm to Madking
quote:Team Averages
Just look at the shot block leaders from that era compared to now. Most of the time it's more than double the amount for the league leaders.
Teams averaged 4.7 blocks per game this season, and 5.0 per game last season. So 5.5 and 5.9 percent of FGAs.
The highest in the 90's was 5.5 blocks per game (91-92), that was 6.3 percent of FGAs.
And since far more threes are attempted nowadays, if you only used the two point attempts, that number is at 8% blocks this season compared to 6.9% in 91-92.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:20 pm to buckeye_vol
That can't be right Hakeem avged 4.6 by himself one year Adam Eaton avged over 5pg by himself one season. Maybe not just the 90s bit the era of Ewing Dream Robinson Shaq Zo Mutombo. Yes there are more threes now but there also the hands off and free movement rules now so players get to the paint a lot too.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 10:23 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:22 pm to Madking
I don't know, man...I just hate the team titles argument as a separator between players. I mean, I get it, but there are so many different variables in terms of individual matchups between series and eras.
True, LeBron isn't playing with deadweight like earlier in his career, but he has played some fabulous teams in the Finals. The Warriors were on the brink of being considered the best team ever last season. The Mavs series is probably the biggest thing you can hold against him.
True, LeBron isn't playing with deadweight like earlier in his career, but he has played some fabulous teams in the Finals. The Warriors were on the brink of being considered the best team ever last season. The Mavs series is probably the biggest thing you can hold against him.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:23 pm to Madking
quote:I agree with you regarding Dallas, but don't know how you can include the Spurs.
The big strikes against him are the two historic beat downs from the Spurs and the loss to Dallas.
In 2007, he took a pretty terrible team to the finals in his third year. That was an accomplishment in and of itself. In 2014, he was the only one on his team to play well, and the Spurs played some of the best basketball in history.
And the 2014 Spurs team will probably always be underrated. They won 62 games had a net rating of almost +10, AND not single player averaged more than 30 minutes. So when they benched shortened in the playoffs, they were far better than the outstanding regular season team.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:25 pm to buckeye_vol
I agree 07 he was completely out gunned but f he's the 1 the greatest he should've done more. The 93 Bulls were outgunned to a man and won in 6 not to the extent of the Cavs sure but a sweep no he has to do more. Look at AI's Sixers vs a alltime great Lakers team who I think was unbeaten in the playoffs until AI stole game 1, Lebron couldn't even do that. But 2014 there's no excuse for an alltime worst beating that the Heat took, on that one there's no defense.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:29 pm to Madking
quote:Yeah in 89-90, he had 376 of the team's 556 blocks. The Rockets also blocked 67 more than the next best team.
That can't be right Hakeem avged 4.6 by himself
But the league average was only 415 or 5.1 per game.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:33 pm to Madking
quote:
That can't be right Hakeem avged 4.6 by himself one year Adam Eaton avged over 5pg by himself one season. Maybe not just the 90s bit the era of Ewing Dream Robinson Shaq Zo Mutombo. Yes there are more threes now but there also the hands off and free movement rules now so players get to the paint a lot too.
The blocks are spread out among the players instead of being isolated to one big man like you saw in the 80s/90s. Elite shot blockers get pulled away from the rim a bit more now, so while the defense can still clog the lane by sagging, they're not sitting on the block like they did back in the day.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:34 pm to Madking
quote:The defense was porous, but the Spurs were insane from the field. They shot 52.8% from the field, but more importantly, 46.7% from three on 24.4 attempts per game. Their effective field goal percentage was 60.4, which exceptional for the best players, let alone a team.
But 2014 there's no excuse for an alltime worst beating that the Heat took, on that one there's no defense.
The way they were playing, there isn't a team in history that wouldn't have had a tough time.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 10:35 pm to BuckeyesAndBulldogs
I think Kareem still edges LBJ. Go do some objective research on Kareem if you haven't already. He gets forgotten about and looked over but just look at his numbers and awards. For me he gets the nod over Lebron.
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