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re: NBA Free Agency Thread: Day 21
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:08 pm to LSU Piston
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:08 pm to LSU Piston
quote:
Minnesota is supposedly getting ready to turn over a top 5 player (IMO) for a bunch of young, relatively unproven players. Its a no-brainer in my eyes, especially factoring in Bron's age, pressure to win, etc.
I don't see it as a no-brainer.
But for those that do think it is, do you guys have a limit as to how much is too much? Or is everyone and anyone not named Lebron/Kyrie up for grabs? All of the picks? All of the young legs? Where is the depth going to come from? Defense?
The no brainer part to me is to get an accurate gauge on the value of your players before you ship them away, and there's no way to do that until they actually play together as a team. Again, I don't see the rush. Minnesota's doing a hell of a job making Cleveland bid against themselves.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 11:09 pm
1
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:12 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
do you guys have a limit as to how much is too much?
To have a core of Kyrie, LeBron, and Love. You obviously have some limit, but what the rumored offer isn't outrageous at all imo.
quote:
The no brainer part to me is to get an accurate gauge on the value of your players before you ship them away, and there's no way to do that until they actually play together as a team
Andrew Wiggins isn't going to turn into an even comparable player to Kevin Love by the all-star break, he may never get there ever in his career.
They just got an entire season of Anthony Bennett. It wasn't pretty.
quote:
Again, I don't see the rush. Minnesota's doing a hell of a job making Cleveland bid against themselves.
Except Cleveland isn't the only ones trying to make a deal for Love.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:13 pm to RTR America
quote:
One of them is a hell of a lot more risky.
Don't really agree with this.
Keeping Wiggins is more risky, yes. But not a hell a lot more risky. He will be a top 3 perimeter defender within a few years (that's not really reaching either) and will complement LeBron and Kyrie well. I think it's a win/win for the Cavs really. I'd rather keep Wiggins because I think he will be better in the long run of the franchise, but will still bring a championship to Cleveland with LeBron.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 11:14 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:19 pm to KillerNut9
Has nothing to do with Titus being a Buckeye, but I agree with his take on the situation 100%
quote:
I’m just not for giving up Wiggins. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the talk surrounding Wiggins and assume that because he’s described as a guy with a ton of potential, he must therefore be a gamble. But just because his ceiling is so high doesn’t mean his cellar is just as low. In truth, even if Wiggins never asserts himself offensively as consistently as he should, he’s still likely going to be a 15-plus PPG guy and one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.
That last bit is huge. The Cavs are in a great spot as it stands by having a young guy who can help LeBron carry the offensive load (Irving) and another who can help carry the defensive load (Wiggins). Wiggins on the Cavs means LeBron won’t always have to guard the other team’s best player. It also means Cleveland could conceivably have the two best perimeter defenders in the game three years from now. That might not sound as sexy as a 26-and-12 guy joining LeBron, until you realize that a Cavs defense with Wiggins and LeBron will get infinity steals, those steals will trigger fast breaks, and those fast breaks will end with one of those guys putting his nuts above the rim.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:26 pm to RTR America
quote:
Andrew Wiggins isn't going to turn into an even comparable player to Kevin Love by the all-star break, he may never get there ever in his career.
It's not about if he's comparable to Love or not. He doesn't have to be. If Wiggins comes out playing like the best rookie in 10 years, then I think that makes him untouchable, or certainly decreases the total compensation due to Minnesota. But how do you know what you have if you ship him away before he plays in a regular season game?
I'm just saying why not make an informed decision based on sound information instead of assumptions.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 11:33 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 11:59 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Wolves have no leverage
You can keep repeating this all you want, but if Love wants to play for a team and they can't sign him outright...then the Wolves still have leverage.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 12:51 am to Goldrush25
quote:
If Wiggins comes out playing like the best rookie in 10 years, then I think that makes him untouchable, or certainly decreases the total compensation due to Minnesota
If this were the case then he probably would have at least showed flashes of it in Summer League. He hasn't.
quote:
I'm just saying why not make an informed decision based on sound information instead of assumptions.
Because by the time you can make this "informed decision" either
A)Kevin Love could be wearing another jersey.
B) Anthony Bennett could possible show no signs of progression in his game hurting his trade value.
C) Wiggins could sustain some sort of injury or also struggle
There are just so many unknowns.
The only really well known fact about all of this is that Kevin Love is a top 5-10 player right now. He can make an incredible impact right now. He's also only 25 years old with a type of game that he can sustain for another decade, so the whole throwing away their longevity stuff doesn't make much sense. He's best outlet passer I have ever seen. which would be just unfair to have on a team with LeBron. He can stretch the floor, but can also attract double teams on the block. He is also 1 of 3 players in the entire NBA to average 12+ rebounds a game this past season.
This should've happened a week ago.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:03 am to RTR America
quote:
I'd say the Suns unless anything has changed.
Didn't he laugh at 4/48 from PHX?
My moneys on the heat.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:05 am to LosLobos111
quote:
Didn't he laugh at 4/48 from PHX?
My moneys on the heat.
He is still a restricted free agent
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:06 am to RTR America
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:17 am to RTR America
Yeah. Good post. Quite comical thinking the Cavs would be better off waiting on the possibility that Wiggins becomes a star.
Love is a no brainer here
Love is a no brainer here
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:18 am to RTR America
I really think the Wolves are banking on keeping Love at this point, which is one hell of a fricking gamble to take.
That's an awesome chart - crossed my eyes for a second but once I zoomed in it's pretty damn impressive that someone put that together.
Poor Rockets. Poor Scotty Hopson.
That's an awesome chart - crossed my eyes for a second but once I zoomed in it's pretty damn impressive that someone put that together.
Poor Rockets. Poor Scotty Hopson.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 1:20 am
Posted on 7/19/14 at 2:05 am to LSU Piston
quote:
Minnesota is supposedly getting ready to turn over a top 5 player (IMO) for a bunch of young, relatively unproven players. Its a no-brainer in my eyes, especially factoring in Bron's age, pressure to win, etc.
This has been discussed ad nauseam already, but a true top 5 player can carry his team to the playoffs, even in the stacked west. Love is an unproven player as well until he performs in games that matter - the playoffs. Minnesota has no choice. They have to get rid of Love before the end of next season or he'll be gone and they'll be left with nothing. Getting Wiggins is a pretty great deal for them as he could develop into a superstar
Posted on 7/19/14 at 7:00 am to RTR America
quote:
Except Cleveland isn't the only ones trying to make a deal for Love.
They're the only ones we're hearing about making any progress on a deal, though. Golden State is in a similar spot with dealing Klay Thompson, and I think the fact that he's a known commodity makes it less likely that GS makes the trade. GS knows what they're getting with Thompson, and if they're unwilling to part with him now, there isn't a lot of reason to see why that would change for them. I just don't think Golden State is interested enough in dealing Thompson, and then there's no one besides Cleveland that we're hearing about trying to push for Love. Other teams are obviously on the phone trying to make a deal, but if there were any smoke to any of them you'd think we would hear about it.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 8:45 am to RTR America
but this board told me that the FA market didn't revolve around LeBron!
Posted on 7/19/14 at 9:08 am to RTR America
Now that is awesome 
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 9:09 am
Posted on 7/19/14 at 9:34 am to RTR America
That looks like something FreeDarko used to do
Posted on 7/19/14 at 10:03 am to RTR America
quote:
Because by the time you can make this "informed decision" either
A)Kevin Love could be wearing another jersey.
B) Anthony Bennett could possible show no signs of progression in his game hurting his trade value.
C) Wiggins could sustain some sort of injury or also struggle
A. By all accounts Cleveland can put together the best offer for Love. So if Minnesota really wants Wiggins that badly, they can have him in January. I know the Wolves are trying to put it out there that there's this huge bidding war for Love but there's not.
B. Bennett's trade value can't get much worse.
C. So you're telling me that Wiggins sustaining a typical basketball-related injury would nix the whole deal, when the whole idea is that he's a player for the future? Not buying that.
I thought the entire premise for trading Wiggins/Bennett is that they're going to go through some growing pains. So why would seeing that actually happen give Minnesota pause all of a sudden?
Posted on 7/19/14 at 10:06 am to Ostrich
quote:
This has been discussed ad nauseam already, but a true top 5 player can carry his team to the playoffs, even in the stacked west. Love is an unproven player as well until he performs in games that matter - the playoffs. Minnesota has no choice. They have to get rid of Love before the end of next season or he'll be gone and they'll be left with nothing. Getting Wiggins is a pretty great deal for them as he could develop into a superstar
A true top 5 player can lead his team to the playoffs in the loaded west? Seriously?
Kevin Love accounted for 14.3 WS this past year, they went 40-42. Rubio was 2nd with 5.9 WS. It may not be the greatest way to say it, but frick that nonsense. The guy is arguably top 3 PF, can shoot/mid-range jumper, and has one of the higher rebound %s in the league.
To compare, the Spurs' highest WS was Leonard at 7.7 and the team was EXTREMELY well balanced with majority of their big players contributing ~7. LAC had 3 players 11+ WS. Rockets had Harden at 12.8 and 3 other players from 7-8 WS.
ETA: Give me 5 better players than Love.
CP3? Most will say yes
LeBron? Yes
KD? Yes
Melo? yes, but he missed playoffs so he's automatically not by your standards
Harden/Howard? No
Griffin? Has CP3
Curry? Arguable
Westbrook? No
George? Maybe if you only take the 1st 2 months of the season
Irving? missed playoffs
Lillard? No
Aldridge? No
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 10:14 am
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