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re: Moneyball
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:05 am to OneMoreTime
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:05 am to OneMoreTime
quote:
Yep. Exactly. The Extra 2%, the book about the Rays turnaround, hits on that bigtime.
The Rays also got the awesomeness of getting the first overall pick for like 10 straight years. I'll be impressed if they can keep it up past this last crop leaving. They gotta get out of Saint Petersburg, their attendance blows and it has to be hurting them financially.
3
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:06 am to Jcorye1
The Rays are stuck in the Trop for a while unfortunately
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:08 am to bddwolfpack
quote:
The Rays are stuck in the Trop for a while unfortunately
Yep. You'd think with all the intelligence they have in the front office, somebody would have understood the Trop was a terrible, terrible financial decision. Then again, when push comes to shove, contracts aren't exactly iron clad.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:09 am to Jcorye1
quote:Yeah, but I'm pretty confident that with the ownership we have right now, we can stay competitive. It's just hard to sustain it when you have two giants in your division.
The Rays also got the awesomeness of getting the first overall pick for like 10 straight years. I'll be impressed if they can keep it up past this last crop leaving
quote:Agreed. We need to move into Tampa. They've been talking about it, but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen anytime soon.
They gotta get out of Saint Petersburg, their attendance blows and it has to be hurting them financially.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:12 am to Jcorye1
Its not about just picking in the top ten every year. At the end of the day, you can't be drafting the Bryan Bullingtons and Bobby Bradleys of the world. Otherwise you are still picking at the same slots.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:16 am to OneMoreTime
quote:
Yeah, but I'm pretty confident that with the ownership we have right now, we can stay competitive. It's just hard to sustain it when you have two giants in your division.
per that point, i heard an interesting idea from Steve Phillips today. he suggested a major realignment where small market teams were in divisions together (i.e. - Rays, Royals, Twins, Marlins) where they would have more incentive to hang on to talent and be aggressive for FAs and veterans because they would have the mindset that they don't have to beat the big boys with all the payroll in order to get into the playoffs.
on the flip side you would have great matchups year round with Yanks, Red Sox, Phils, etc. being in the same divisions. the postseason would also be intriguing w/ the David vs. Goliath angle.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:17 am to Rohan2Reed
quote:
interesting idea from Steve Phillips
Stopped right there.
BTW Did you know that Steve Phillips discovered David Wright
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:19 am to lsu31always
"A-Rod's swing on that outside fastball was ideal, and I did draft David Wright." Thank you, Steve.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 1:20 am to lsu31always
and Scott Kazmir.... speaking of nice moves by the Rays.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 2:31 am to LSUtigersarefun
MONEYBALL ISN'T A SPECIFIC THING!!!!
so it doesn't get you pennants or a world series. Moneyball is the idea that exploiting market inefficiencies will help you get an edge whether you can compete on level financial terms or not.
It's unbelievable how people still think it's one direct strategy.
Also, the actual philosophy they used in the book, was pretty well responsible for two World Series, albeit in Boston.
so it doesn't get you pennants or a world series. Moneyball is the idea that exploiting market inefficiencies will help you get an edge whether you can compete on level financial terms or not.
It's unbelievable how people still think it's one direct strategy.
Also, the actual philosophy they used in the book, was pretty well responsible for two World Series, albeit in Boston.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 2:37 am to Rohan2Reed
quote:
per that point, i heard an interesting idea from Steve Phillips today. he suggested a major realignment where small market teams were in divisions together (i.e. - Rays, Royals, Twins, Marlins) where they would have more incentive to hang on to talent and be aggressive for FAs and veterans because they would have the mindset that they don't have to beat the big boys with all the payroll in order to get into the playoffs.
on the flip side you would have great matchups year round with Yanks, Red Sox, Phils, etc. being in the same divisions. the postseason would also be intriguing w/ the David vs. Goliath angle.
wtf kind of nonsense is this?
Why would Boston NY Philly etc agree to cannibalize themselves so KC or Pit had some motivation to get better?
quote:
being in the same divisions. the postseason would also be intriguing w/ the David vs. Goliath angle.
another way to put this would be really good teams vs really mediocre teams in a format that doesn't always reward superiority.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 2:42 am to LfcSU3520
Respek 
Posted on 9/15/11 at 7:49 am to LSUtigersarefun
quote:
It is a good strategy for the regular season but not the playoffs.
This is one of the most asinine statements that keeps getting repeated by people.
Post season success depends a great deal on LUCK. There is no secret playoff magic. If your goal is to win a championship, then first you MUST have success in the regular season, and then deal with the post season.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 7:49 am to LSUtigersarefun
quote:
My personal opinion is that moneyball wins penants but not world series.
Beane even says in the book that playoffs are a crap shoot, but you have to get there to give yourself a chance. The best team doesn't always win a series, but will win more games over a longer period.
Second, the marlins didn't have cheap payrolls, they brought in good players, won, then had a fire sale.
It's hard to continue to thrive when everyone else adopts the idea. The a's make an offer, then the red sox or yanks come in and outbid them. It's why Beane continually trades proven players for farm guys who continue to be pretty damn good. Cant get the big time guys, you build from the bottom.
One of the biggest things that has hurt the a's is they no longer have the big home run guys, which was a key to their success. Get guys on base, don't give up outs, hit home runs, good pitching and defense
This post was edited on 9/15/11 at 7:51 am
Posted on 9/15/11 at 7:49 am to LfcSU3520
quote:
Also, the actual philosophy they used in the book, was pretty well responsible for two World Series, albeit in Boston.
Exactly.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 7:56 am to LfcSU3520
quote:
so it doesn't get you pennants or a world series. Moneyball is the idea that exploiting market inefficiencies will help you get an edge whether you can compete on level financial terms or not.
It's unbelievable how people still think it's one direct strategy.
well put, what's also unbelievable is that people think because the A's didn't win the WS, that "moneyball" doesn't work or was proven wrong or can't win in the playoff's
Also the Marlins first WS winner was a team full of free agents and a pretty big payroll
This post was edited on 9/15/11 at 7:59 am
Posted on 9/15/11 at 8:08 am to SohCahToa
quote:
But if the book is good, wouldn't it make you want to see the movie even more?
In the case of Moneyball the best parts of the book for me, can't be made into a movie because its the stuff about Sabrmetrics and value etc. The movie looks like the typical "underdog" story, which will sadly undermine the best parts of the book.
Same with the Blind Side, which I didn't see, the parts in the book about Oher and the Touhy's was not as interesting as the parts discussing the evelution of the passing game and the importance of the LT position.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 8:10 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
what's also unbelievable is that people think because the A's didn't win the WS, that "moneyball" doesn't work or was proven wrong or can't win in the playoff's
That's one of my biggest beefs with what is considered "thought" in sports discussion: The Ring Argument.
People seem to obsess over a tiny sample of games that also happen to suffer from a form of selection bias, rather than examining a player or team's entire body of work.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 9:11 am to Sophandros
quote:
People seem to obsess over a tiny sample of games that also happen to suffer from a form of selection bias, rather than examining a player or team's entire body of work.
Fwiw, athletes themselves perpetuate this. Elite teams don't go into the season saying, "Guys, we're going to have a great year this year, we're shooting for the playoffs." No, they always say they are going for the championship, be it WS, SB, or whatever you want.
Posted on 9/15/11 at 9:16 am to Jcorye1
quote:
No, they always say they are going for the championship, be it WS, SB, or whatever you want.
of course that's the goal, that doesn't mean the team that wins it was automatically the best team, they just won that one game. There's a great example of this, but I'm sure a Pats fan knows what it is
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