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re: MLB Pitching: changing speeds ever going to replace a 4 seam fastball clocking 100 MPH?
Posted on 2/18/26 at 9:45 am to UAinSOUTHAL
Posted on 2/18/26 at 9:45 am to UAinSOUTHAL
quote:
Greg Maddux tooped out at 92 mph
The average fastball velocity in the 1990’s was 89-90. Maddux was a flame thrower.
Pitchers without great velo can’t miss bats consistently: Jamie Moyer, Jose Quintana, Sean Manua etc.
Mark Buehrle Is the ceiling of soft tossers
1
Posted on 2/18/26 at 10:03 am to OhioLSUfan
quote:
The average fastball velocity in the 1990’s was 89-90. Maddux was a flame thrower.
I get your point but this is not true - Maddux was not a flamethrower even in his era, he was viewed as a finesse pitcher.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 11:44 am to Paul Allen
quote:
Are we well past those days?
I knew quite a few pitchers who could throw real hard. Ball still needs movement. A flat 97 mph will be hammered.AND they need command.
Changing speeds was essential to pitcher arm longevity. Plus they were geared at one time to go 7-9 innings and 100+ innings. No more.
80-90 pitches at 97+ mph seems to be the new standard. While mixing in an occasional breaking ball. Throwing smoke for 5-6 innings is good enough knowing the pen will finish up these days.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 11:47 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
Maddux was not a flamethrower even in his era, he was viewed as a finesse pitcher.
One of the best -- although helped immensely by the umps establishing his strike zone as from Tulsa to Oklahoma City. Same with Glavine
Posted on 2/18/26 at 12:13 pm to Paul Allen
Do you mean innings instead of starts?
Posted on 2/18/26 at 12:21 pm to PP7 for heisman
quote:Bro what? He was facing off against roided monsters hitting 70 homers a year
mistakes weren't killed as much in his time.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 12:35 pm to Paul Allen
There is some data that if you throw 100 mph just throw it down the middle.
If you miss fine, you are probably still in the strike zone and the number show that hitting 100 mph down the middle is still incredibly hard.
Batters have a BA of .123 against Aroldis Chapman middel-middle pitched clocked at 101 or higher.
They also haven’t ever hit for extra bases.
Now throwing 100 mph is hard
If you miss fine, you are probably still in the strike zone and the number show that hitting 100 mph down the middle is still incredibly hard.
Batters have a BA of .123 against Aroldis Chapman middel-middle pitched clocked at 101 or higher.
They also haven’t ever hit for extra bases.
Now throwing 100 mph is hard
Posted on 2/18/26 at 12:49 pm to EphesianArmor
quote:
although helped immensely by the umps establishing his strike zone as from Tulsa to Oklahoma City. Same with Glavine
Glavine more so than Maddux on that.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 1:39 pm to PP7 for heisman
quote:
was afforded a much bigger zone
This is a myth. His ability to expand the zone was a skill. When you consistently dot the corner you’re going to get the benefit of the doubt on balls just off the plate. Many will post gifs of him getting calls 5 inches outside but that’s from 1 game and 1 bad umpire.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 1:44 pm to Drewbie
quote:At the top, yeah.
Bro what? He was facing off against roided monsters hitting 70 homers a year
But today, more home runs are hit, there is no DH, and guys are pretty much max effort every swing now.
The chance your mistake pitch is to a contact hitter who's looking to go the other way is much lower today than it was in the 90s/00s.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 1:46 pm to Undertow
quote:No it's not. Umpires are more accurate and are scrutinized more today than they were 30 years ago.
This is a myth. His ability to expand the zone was a skill.
In general, zones were bigger and umpires were worse during Maddux's career.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 1:53 pm to PP7 for heisman
quote:
No it's not. Umpires are more accurate and are scrutinized more today than they were 30 years ago.
In general, zones were bigger and umpires were worse during Maddux's career.
Ok but that’s not specific to Maddux. He was on even footing to everyone from his era. And even though umpires are better today, pitchers who consistently throw strikes will still get more calls just off the plate than those that don’t.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 2:11 pm to PP7 for heisman
quote:
In general, zones were bigger and umpires were worse during Maddux's career.
That is true if the only difference is Angel Hernandez umped then but not now.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 2:41 pm to Paul Allen
Hall of Fame pitcher retired in 2010, his signature pitch was a 73 mph change up.
Hoffman was one of 2 pitchers with 600 saves. The other was the only unanimous HOF selection with a 93 mph cutter and 86 mph slider.
Hoffman was one of 2 pitchers with 600 saves. The other was the only unanimous HOF selection with a 93 mph cutter and 86 mph slider.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 3:03 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
Are we well past those days? Used to be a pitching prospect was highly rated by his ability to change speeds and give you 30 starts a season.
Nowadays no one really goes anywhere near 30 starts and is only looking for a 4 seam fastball that clocks 100 mph plus.
this non sense is so tiring, just like the dumbasses who think hitters are worse today and defense is not as good.
pitchers throw more off speed and rely on movement more than ever.
But the fastball....yea it has to be faster than ever....know why? look at whiff rate
seriously.....is math just hard for some of yall? because yall continue to post stupid arse shite over and over that is easily disproven by a tad bit of research. And just because some former player with an IQ of 92 post it on twitter, doesnt make it true, especially when its a dumb frick like Jeff Frye.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 3:11 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Hall of Fame pitcher retired in 2010, his signature pitch was a 73 mph change up.
Hoffman was one of 2 pitchers with 600 saves. The other was the only unanimous HOF selection with a 93 mph cutter and 86 mph slider.
why do you think those were so effective early on?
because early in his career he could run it up to 95-96 until his shoulder surgery
but overall even after his surgery he had a 15mph difference in the fast and change up. thats a big difference
and his movement pattern was outlier
using pitchers like hoffman and Maddux(also could hit 96 when with the cubs out of his own mouth) as some kind of gotcha actually shows how rare those pitchers are.
mlb has been trying to find the next greg maddux since he retired. if it was that easy dont you think they would have. Hell GM worked for the rangers....why didnt he teach their pitchers to be like him or find the next one?
because there is only 1 greg maddux, just like only 1 trevor hoffman
using 1 offs to try and prove a point shows yall lack critical thinking skills
Posted on 2/18/26 at 3:16 pm to lsu777
I don’t care why it happened it happened.
Maddux, Hoffman, Rivera are 3 HOFs, that rarely broke 95. Just providing context for the OP.
Maddux, Hoffman, Rivera are 3 HOFs, that rarely broke 95. Just providing context for the OP.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 3:16 pm to Undertow
quote:
This is a myth. His ability to expand the zone was a skill. When you consistently dot the corner you’re going to get the benefit of the doubt on balls just off the plate. Many will post gifs of him getting calls 5 inches outside but that’s from 1 game and 1 bad umpire.
how dumb are you?
this is just since 2007. if someone went back to 1985 or 1995 it would be way way worse.
2007-2025 heat maps by year
go watch some video. go watch game 5 of the 97 world serious. GM and Pedro got those calls a ton. Tons of video on x showing it.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.This post was edited on 2/18/26 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 2/18/26 at 3:26 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Maddux, Hoffman, Rivera are 3 HOFs, that rarely broke 95. Just providing context for the OP.
yea no shite.....
GH and TH mainly pitched with terrible strike zones and GM was above the league average for fastball velo most of the first half of his career. Hoffman was until his shoulder surgery.
GM has said himself, he would get shelled by hitters today and would have to change back to throwing hard like he did coming out of HS. it would have shortened his career. you do understand in the 80s...GM sat 4 mph higher than the league average? even into the mid 90s when he sat 90-91 he was 1-2 mph higher than league average. His fastball didnt fall below league average until he had been in the league for close to 15 years and even then it was only 1-2 mph below.
as for MR.....at least through 2008 his fastball was at a minimum of 3mph faster than league average. for the first 10 years of his career is was more closer to 5 above league average.
again you sound like fricking idiot bringing up guys that threw significantly harder than league average. bringing those guys up doesnt do what you think it does.
how does bringing up guys that throw harder than league average for much of their career help your argument? Especially when Maddux has said if he tried that today he would get shelled?
Posted on 2/18/26 at 3:28 pm to lsu777
quote:
how dumb are you?
Pretty dumb but not as dumb as you. You didn’t even address my post. I never disagreed that umpires are better now. That’s besides the point.
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