re: MJ: “I would never call myself the greatest ever”

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If Gary was playing today he had have no choice but to lift. 

You have to give the same benefits to the older players in these hypotheticals

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Or you could just appreciate greatness in one's own time.

Wilt was regarded as a physical monster at 7'1, 275. Then Shaq comes along 50 pounds heavier.

Nothing wrong with recognizing Wilt and Shaq were both freaks who dominated their eras. Like Tbird is saying, people get too emotionally invested in an intellectual debate.

Same with MJ and LeBron. Hell, I think it's a stupid opinion when people include Kobe in the MJ/Bron debate, but it really isn't that impactful.

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You have to give the same benefits to the older players in these hypotheticals

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No, I don't think so. I think the whole argument across eras is silly, but if you must compare, better to do it 1 for 1 in a vacuum with time travel as the only variable. Otherwise it just gets sillier.

Ben Harper? Damn just stop

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And you never had to worry whether MJ was going to quit on his team or not

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Price was more athletic than Nash who dominated in this style of play. Anyone who thinks this era is better never played the game. They look like they can do more because they’re allowed to roam free without being touched but there’s not much difference. Now the 80s yes because it was totally coach controlled played through the post with players having to meet certain defensive and other requirements just to stay on a team. But there were always 6-9 small forwards that could shoot and handle, it’s nothing new, the game was just more structured because defense played a much larger part of it and teams were run through the post. Listen to the guys who’ve played in both eras compared to the medias who know nothing contrasting opinions. The guys who actually played all say the old teams could definitely beat the new teams. Now when it comes to great it transcends era and they’ll say it. The golden state vs bulls debate is nearly split but the argument that today’s players are so far ahead of the 90s guys is flat out stupid and false. You put Shaq in this league, with these rules and he could average 40. Jordan would def average 40 at least for a year or 2.

A. I said players who played in both eras so what you said is inaccurate

B. You’re judging everything based on the 3 point shot which wasnt used nearly as much back then and rightfully so

C. The size doesn’t dwarf the former players, players are actually smaller now on average at almost every position. Only guards are bigger

PER isn't 3 point dependent.

I do think 3 point percentage is a useful indicator of skill development. If distance shooting is not a useful statistical measurer of skill, what stat do you think measures skill development?

The blend of size and skill has gone up. Look at the skillsets of guys like AD, Giannis, Jokic, Durant, etc. You did not see players with that combo of size and skill in the 80's or 90's.

Agreed the improvements in masking hgh have done wonders for this new generation

I agree on that I do think that today’s NBA collectively is much better than the 80s. I don’t buy the argument that it wasn’t physical like ppl say because there wasn’t much ball pressure beyond the perimeter because guys simply didn’t shoot the 3 so why guard it. So I think some ppl sell the top teams short but I do agree that overall it’s kich better now and there are cultural racial and other factors that contribute to that discrepancy.