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re: Kevin Brown: One of the most underrated pitchers of modern era?

Posted on 6/16/13 at 4:40 pm to
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37590 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 4:40 pm to
he was amazing at his peak (96 was one of the great forgotten seasons - lost a cy young to smoltz that he should have won)

I think his reputation was lessened both because his peak came during the steroid years of 96 thru the start of the 00s and because he didn't do much after signing a mega deal

ETA: the comments on his personality and steroid use affecting his hall chances are right on the money IMO
This post was edited on 6/16/13 at 4:50 pm
Posted by lsu480
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
92903 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 5:47 pm to
quote:

he was amazing at his peak (96 was one of the great forgotten seasons - lost a cy young to smoltz that he should have won)



He got screwed
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
45110 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:14 pm to
the vote was 26-2
Posted by Porter Osborne Jr
Member since Sep 2012
43908 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

He got screwed
Can you expand on this? I've seen a few others say the same thing in this thread but I don't remember it.
Posted by The Seaward
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2006
11532 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:22 pm to
His '98 season was just as good, if not better than '96.
Posted by Zamoro10
Member since Jul 2008
14743 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:25 pm to
Article explaining it toward the end of that year...

quote:

Cy Young is meant for the best pitcher that the smart vote is not the winningest pitcher, not the most-celebrated pitcher, not the most-dominating pitcher on the best team in baseball.

Not John Smoltz.

"Kevin Brown's the best in the league," said Chicago's Mark Grace after the Marlins' 9-2 win, using the same, bare-boned description that Cincinnati's Barry Larkin and Colorado's Don Baylor recently have in the visiting locker room at Pro Player Park.

Typically, it's wins that win the Cy Young, and Smoltz has 20 to Brown's 15. But Brown has a 1.88 earned-run average to Smoltz's 2.83.

From here, the sport of stats brings in some variables to heed, the most serious showing Brown has been as unlucky as he has been untouchable.

Smoltz has the 13th-best run support in the league at 5.3 runs an outing. Brown has the majors' worst at 3.33. The Marlins have scored 10 runs in his 10 losses.

"To put it in layman's terms, there's three ways to get guys out - in and out, up and down, fast and slow," Grace said. "Brown's excellent at all three. Nothing's straight. It's cutting. It's sinking. He busts you inside, he doesn't walk you."

Grace shook his head. "He's the best right now. He'd look great in a Cubs uniform."

Besides a few more runs from teammates this season, such a uniform might be all Brown lacks in the race for the Cy Young. Some place to appreciate his season. Somewhere that respects this magic.

Typically, to win the Cy Young on a non-contending team like the Marlins, there has to be a touch of the historic, the most dramatic example being Steve Carlton's 27 wins on the 59-win Phillies in 1972.

Brown has made no such loud statement. His has simply been a succession of melodious ones. Of his 28 starts, in just three starts have opponents scored more than three runs.
Posted by mattz1122
Member since Oct 2007
56456 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:26 pm to
Brown had an ERA that was more than a run lower. His ERA+ was 215 to Smoltz's 149. Brown had a sub-1 WHIP. His WAR was 7.98 to Smoltz's 7.28.

The Marlins were a sub-.500 team. The Braves were World Series favorites. Smoltz won 24 games and struck out 276, more than 100 more than Brown.

Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
45110 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

Smoltz won 24 games and struck out 276, more than 100 more than Brown.


I think Smoltz lead the league in Ks, wins, & innings pitched that year. I thought that Brown's first year in San Diego was his best.
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150432 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:31 pm to
He was great in LA. He just got injured to often
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:39 pm to
Yes, he had an ERA advantage of 1.89 to 2.94. But if you're a stat geek, K/BB ratio is just as important to you (because a pitcher controls that n w away he cannot control hits) and Smoltz had the edge 276/55 to 159/33. 120 strikeouts is a massive, massive gap.

Also, look at the Park Factors.

Florida: 96
Atlanta: 104

Brown pitched in a far better environment for pitchers and preventing runs. I have literally no problem with Smoltz winning the award. You can make a case for Brown, but it's not nearly as overwhelming as the article suggests.
Posted by mattz1122
Member since Oct 2007
56456 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 6:45 pm to
Fun fact: Brandon Weeden was one of the pieces swapped for Brown when Brown was traded from the Dodgers to the Yankees after the 2003 season.
This post was edited on 6/16/13 at 6:46 pm
Posted by lsu480
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
92903 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 7:04 pm to
quote:

Yes, he had an ERA advantage of 1.89 to 2.94. But if you're a stat geek, K/BB ratio is just as important to you (because a pitcher controls that n w away he cannot control hits) and Smoltz had the edge 276/55 to 159/33. 120 strikeouts is a massive, massive gap.

Also, look at the Park Factors.

Florida: 96
Atlanta: 104

Brown pitched in a far better environment for pitchers and preventing runs. I have literally no problem with Smoltz winning the award. You can make a case for Brown, but it's not nearly as overwhelming as the article suggests.


Brown had a WHIP under 1 that year to go along with his sub 2 ERA.
Posted by HeadyBrosevelt
the Verde River
Member since Jan 2013
21591 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 7:12 pm to
Go Marlins!
Posted by Zamoro10
Member since Jul 2008
14743 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 7:24 pm to
Yeah but...10 runs as support in his 10 losses is a crazy stat for a pitcher to have to handle - talk about daily pressure to shut down the opposition.

No doubt Brown lost the Cy Young on win totals to Smoltz and playing a crummy market.

His 1996 season ranks as the 20th best season EVER from an ERA perspective.
This post was edited on 6/16/13 at 7:26 pm
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
45110 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 7:33 pm to
Now Weeden is a Brown
Posted by TheRoarRestoredInBR
Member since Dec 2004
31141 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 7:39 pm to
1992-1993 Sega Genesis..Tex Rangers with Brown on mound..Pudge, Palmeiro, Palmer, Franco, Sierra, and JuanGone hitting..a good formula to be house champeen for the day!
Posted by mattz1122
Member since Oct 2007
56456 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 8:26 pm to
I used to dominate on Triple Play '98 with his sinker.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37590 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 8:31 pm to
quote:

1992-1993 Sega Genesis..Tex Rangers with Brown on mound..Pudge, Palmeiro, Palmer, Franco, Sierra, and JuanGone hitting..a good formula to be house champeen for the day!



these guys and the late 80s/early 90s Oakland As are a couple of fun all star, all steroid teams
Posted by ShowMeWhatYouGotRaji
Member since Dec 2012
266 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 9:08 pm to
Heard a story about KB. Some leather lung fan was getting personal with Ken Caminiti (when he was with Padres), supposedly Brown found the guy after the game and beat him down.

Roid rage or great teammate. You decide
Posted by ThaBigFella
baton rouge
Member since Apr 2006
2043 posts
Posted on 6/16/13 at 9:34 pm to
He pitched one of the greatest games I've ever seen in person in the 1998 playoffs, forgot the final stats but Im pretty sure it was a 1-0 or 2-1 win over the astros

He went a complete game with like 16k and Randy johnson went a complete game and struckout a bunch.....unreal freaking game.

He was a pest that series and beat randy johnson twice i think
This post was edited on 6/16/13 at 9:40 pm
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