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Message
re: Is CP3 actually underrated now?
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:50 pm to shel311
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:50 pm to shel311
quote:
2008 playoffs: 24/11/5 with 3 steals, 50% shooting
Lost to Parker-led Spurs
quote:
2010 playoffs: 22/12/7 on 55% shooting
Lost
quote:
2013 playoffs: 23/6/4 on 54% shooting
Lost to Parker-led Spurs
quote:
2014 playoffs: 20/10/4 with 3 steals on 47% shooting
Lost and see GIF posted previously.
quote:
Nailed it!!!
yep
3
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:52 pm to Ostrich
quote:Oh ya know, not much:
Seriously, instead of laughing, explain what Paul has done that is significant
8× NBA All-Star (2008–2015)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2013)
4× All-NBA First Team (2008, 2012–2014)
All-NBA Second Team (2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2011)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009, 2012–2014)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008, 2011)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2006)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2006)
3× NBA assists leader (2008–2009, 2014)
6× NBA steals leader (2008–2009, 2011–2014)
quote:See above, he's great in the playoffs, better than Parker ever has been.
He's great in the regular season, so what?
quote:No, it doesn't. It says he was on better teams.
The hardware that the two players have says differently
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:52 pm to Ostrich
You are wildly oversimplifying this issue 
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:54 pm to Ostrich
So your only reason an individual is better is by talking about team accomplishments?
So you think TOny Parker is higher on the all time list than Barkley and Karl Malone, and you also think Bill Russell is the GOAT over MJ, right? Gotta be consistent, so you HAVE to agree with the above.
Or are you one of those that pick and choose when to use titles when it's convenient for you?
So you think TOny Parker is higher on the all time list than Barkley and Karl Malone, and you also think Bill Russell is the GOAT over MJ, right? Gotta be consistent, so you HAVE to agree with the above.
Or are you one of those that pick and choose when to use titles when it's convenient for you?
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:54 pm to Ostrich
I think CP3 took a serious perception hit with the choke job last year in the playoffs.
He is still underrated though. He's one of the few players you could put on almost any team in the NBA and they'd probably make the playoffs his first year there.
He is still underrated though. He's one of the few players you could put on almost any team in the NBA and they'd probably make the playoffs his first year there.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:55 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:Count the rings...except for all the times you don't count the rings.
You are wildly oversimplifying this issue
Billups doesn't count. Barkley/Malone, oh they get an exception. MJ>Russell despite 5 less rings, 1 more exception.
But other than the other 400 exceptions, COUNT THE RINGS!!!
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:57 pm to shel311
quote:
So your only reason an individual is better is by talking about team accomplishments?
Players get judged based on how they help their team win, which Paul has failed to do and Parker has excelled.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 2:58 pm to shel311
quote:
Barkley/Malone, oh they get an exception.
Do they get an exception though? If either one had won 5 rings and Duncan hadn't won any, they would be considered the best PF of all time, not Duncan. That's just how it is
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:00 pm to Ostrich
quote:Yes or no questions.
Do they get an exception though?
On your hypothetical all time list how do you rank these guys:
- Is Russell higher than MJ
- Is Barkley above Tony Parker
- Is Malone above Tony Parker
Remember now, Russell and Parker excelled more at helping their teams win and MJ/Barkley/Malone failed more at this than Russell and Parker.
quote:So because that's how the general public views it, it's just how it is, and you fall in line with it because that's "just how it is?"
That's just how it is
Yikes
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:02 pm to RTR America
quote:
Yeah I hate the rings or bust arguments for the most part.
Well, especially with PGs. Look at the PG's who have won the championships since MJ......
Whatever irrelevant PG the Bulls strutted out
Kenny Smith(11 points 3 assists)
Avery Johnson
Derek Fisher
Tony Parker
Chauncey Billups(39% shooting on year)
Jason Williams
Rajon Rondo(10/5)
old Derek Fisher
old Jason Kidd
Mario Chalmers
Tony Parker
Thats pretty terrible. Like those players are, on average, worse than your average NBA starting PG. I think its pretty clear that in the modern game point guards aren't needed at a minimum. You can probably go even further and say that wasting salary on a good one cripples your chances of winning a championship.
Championship success just clearly isn't a good way to judge PGs.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:03 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
He's one of the few players you could put on almost any team in the NBA and they'd probably make the playoffs his first year there.
Mmm good topic.
Harden
Durant
Westbrook
Paul
Lebron
Not sure any big men in the league fit the bill.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:05 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:All better than Chris Paul in the playoffs!!!!
Whatever irrelevant PG the Bulls strutted out
Kenny Smith(11 points 3 assists)
Avery Johnson
Derek Fisher
Tony Parker
Chauncey Billups(39% shooting on year)
Jason Williams
Rajon Rondo(10/5)
old Derek Fisher
old Jason Kidd
Mario Chalmers
Tony Parker
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:07 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Mmm good topic.
Harden
Durant
Westbrook
Paul
Lebron
Not sure any big men in the league fit the bill.
Depends how seriously you take the almost. Lebron is the only one who could take the bottom 5 teams to the playoffs, imo.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:07 pm to shel311
quote:
On your hypothetical all time list how do you rank these guys:
- Is Russell higher than MJ
- Is Barkley above Tony Parker
- Is Malone above Tony Parker
First of all, Russell played in a different era so it's hard to compare. But I'd rank it
1. MJ
2. Russell
Next, Barkely & Malone ran into the buzzsaw that was MJ, so I will give them a small pass. But I don't think there is any doubt that they would've had a greater legacy had they won a title.
3. Malone/Barkley
4. Parker
quote:
So because that's how the general public views it, it's just how it is, and you fall in line with it because that's "just how it is?"
Leading a team to a title puts you in fairly rare company. To use your own example, it's so relevant that it forever makes you memorable even when you were just slightly above average for your career (Billups).
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:07 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:That's definitely the short list. That being said, given how tough the West is, there's 2-3 teams you could drop any of those players on, and they're still not a top 8 team in the West, so there's kind of an asterisk on that one this season.
Mmm good topic.
Harden
Durant
Westbrook
Paul
Lebron
Not sure any big men in the league fit the bill.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:09 pm to Ostrich
quote:
1. MJ
2. Russell
quote:
3. Malone/Barkley
4. Parker
So rings matter unless you think they don't matter, that's basically what I'm getting out of this. Just whenever it's convenient for your argument, you use the rings.
quote:Unless it's one of the above exceptions, and I'm sure there are others.
Leading a team to a title puts you in fairly rare company
Paul is better than Parker, it's not even remotely close.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:10 pm to shel311
Yeh, I'd like to see all these people lists of decorated point guards who are better.
Magic
Stockton
Hell, Tony Parker is probably your next best pick and nobody in their right mind can claim that Parker is better than Paul. Its just ridiculous. Paul is better in every single way and theres no way the Spurs would have less success with him playing his whole career with Duncan.
Magic
Stockton
Hell, Tony Parker is probably your next best pick and nobody in their right mind can claim that Parker is better than Paul. Its just ridiculous. Paul is better in every single way and theres no way the Spurs would have less success with him playing his whole career with Duncan.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:13 pm to shel311
quote:
So rings matter unless you think they don't matter, that's basically what I'm getting out of this. Just whenever it's convenient for your argument, you use the rings.
To Malone and Barkley's credit, they at least both led their team to the Finals. Paul's hasn't even seen the third round yet, as has already been stated.
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:16 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Depends how seriously you take the almost. Lebron is the only one who could take the bottom 5 teams to the playoffs, imo.
I'd argue Paul is better than any of those other 4 at making others around him better. He's not the individual basketball talent those other guys are, and I don't even know if he's top 10 of players who need the least help to win a title. He's a unique talent and may be the last "true PG" in the Stockton-type mold we'll ever see.
ETA: Before I start getting called out for being a Paul jocksniffer for saying the above, I find his game grating and whiny now. He is certainly not the same personality he was in NOLA.
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 3/6/15 at 3:17 pm to shel311
quote:
That's definitely the short list. That being said, given how tough the West is, there's 2-3 teams you could drop any of those players on, and they're still not a top 8 team in the West, so there's kind of an asterisk on that one this season.
Yeh exactly..... If KD OR Westbrook were healthy this year, this question is really asking who would be able to be better than the defending champions(Spurs would be the 8 seed) single handily with a terrible roster. Even Lebron would struggle with that.
And I think AD and Curry belong on that list too. Hell AD is the best example there is. If he was healthy, which I assume this hypothetical is taking health for granted, the Pelicans are comfortably in the playoffs right now. And the average Pelicans roster fielded this year sans AD is certainly not very good.
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