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re: If Eli wins another SB, would you put him above Peyton as a better QB?
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:18 pm to pankReb
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:18 pm to pankReb
He also places the ball in the wrong team's hands at an alarming rate. Brady is throwing the ball to TE's because the Pats lack big play WRs. Hell, Welker is basically a volume pass catcher. There may not be a WR in the league who benefits more from QB play than Wes.
1
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:20 pm to TigerMan327
quote:
If Peyton had the defenses and running games the Giants have had and used to have the past few years he would prob have 3 super bowls so..
That is part of Peytons problem and part of why he is so great. They are pass 1st. And 2nd and 3rd. All they do is pass. They have had good RB's. Throwing gets a lot tougher when you have no balance and HAVE to throw. Eli's system is more balanced. Would be a shame not to use all the meat on the hoof that they have with Jacobs and Bradshaw.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:20 pm to AlexLSU
quote:
He also places the ball in the wrong team's hands at an alarming rate. Brady is throwing the ball to TE's because the Pats lack big play WRs. Hell, Welker is basically a volume pass catcher. There may not be a WR in the league who benefits more from QB play than Wes.
Funny thing is, when all is said and done, he may be a HoFer.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:22 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Without Tom Brady, Welker would be bagging groceries. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick because the Raiders thought he was done.
I'm on your side, but Ocho Cinco just went to New England to die pretty much. I wasn't expecting him to put up Randy Moss numbers but I never thought he'd just drop completely off.
But I agree, I think great QB's make good receivers great and great receivers excellent. I said in the other thread I love what Eli does and he's an excellent field general, but something doesn't allow me in my mind to put him on Brady or Peytons level. He just doesn't seem as efficient and like a lot of times when something good happens for them, it seems more like a miracle than something that was supposed to happen. I hope what I'm trying to say makes sense.......
The flipside to that coin is when Brady or Peyton throw an errant pass, everyone can tell what a huge frick up it was. When Eli does it, it's just par for the course it seems.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:23 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Not really, but go on believing the myth.
Let's look at Passer Rating in the post season:
LINK
And that proves that Aaron Brooks is better than Steve Young, Favre, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, both Mannings in the post season?
I wouldn't take statistics too seriously...
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:25 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Without Tom Brady, Welker would be bagging groceries. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick because the Raiders thought he was done.
excuse me while I
Wes Welker was a beast before Tom Brady. He lit teams up while at Texas Tech.....and unless you know something I don't, Tom Brady wasn't there.
And Randy Moss was still a beast putting up ridiculous numbers. Brady got a ton of stats by just throwing jump balls to Moss for a few years.
It's as easy to say quite a few WRs from the Giants over the past 4 seasons would be bagging groceries without Eli. You remember Steve Smith right? Not the one from the Panthers....the one that was Eli's go-to guy even when Plax and Toomer were on the team. Yeah...he's no longer with the giants. The WR who has been with Eli the longest is Manningham and he hasn't even been there long.
quote:
You are acting like he was only throwing to Megatron, Andre Johnson, or Larry Fitzgerald.
You must have an extremely short memory because Randy Moss was this for a good while.
You are acting like he's got throwing to scout team WRs.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:25 pm to Michael J Cocks
quote:
I'm on your side, but Ocho Cinco just went to New England to die pretty much. I wasn't expecting him to put up Randy Moss numbers but I never thought he'd just drop completely off.
Sometimes people just don't connect. You could tell in the preseason that they, for whatever reason, couldn't get on the same page. It sucks, but there's a reason Deon Branch could come over and get right back to putting up good stats. Brady has talent, sure, but he also develops great chemistry with his WRs.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:27 pm to pankReb
quote:
Lets talk about WR talent.
Why would yu want to do that? That just makes a better case for Brady. Nick/Cruz/Manningham >>>>>>>>> Welker/Branch/Old Ocho
Plaxico was better than anybody Brady had before Moss/Welker.
Plax/Toomer/Shockey. That is better than what Brady was working with when the Pats were winnigns SBs. And even with Tiki running all over defenses Eli still sucked arse. Hell if his last name wasn't Manning he probably would have been bench multiple times for his shitty play.
Brady had nothing at WR until '07 and when he finally got some talent to work with he went on to have arguably the best season for a QB ever. His leg injury is the only thing that has slowed him down since. Even with probably the best WR group in football Eli still can't come close to his numbers.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:29 pm to Cdawg
quote:
Eli has nothing to do with this?
Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks are fricking studs.
Cruz is quickly becoming one of my favorite players to not be a Viking.
Eli is a very good QB that falls into the second tier of QBs. Pretty simple. He was my breakthrough player of the year because I thought he would lower his INT numbers and I liked his receiving core coming into the year (pre-Cruz, although I hoped Cruz would get a chance after watching him torch the Jets preseason in 2010 for 250 and 3 scores).
What impresses me most about Eli this year is his YPA. It is tied for fourth in the NFL. That is pretty fricking good. Rodgers, Brady, and Schaub (did not play the whole year were ahead of him) were the top three. He was tied with Carson Palmer. What the frick, I know. FWIW, he was ahead of Brees (by .1 yard per attempt). Eli had a really nice season where you can make a fair argument that he is the fourth best QB in football if and only if you exclude his older brother from the discussion.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:29 pm to pankReb
quote:
Wes Welker was a beast before Tom Brady. He lit teams up while at Texas Tech.....and unless you know something I don't, Tom Brady wasn't there.
Most WRs in the NFL lit it up in college... so what? What does that prove about the NFL level?
He had 1 touchdown, 1000 yards in his first three seasons in the NFL.
In 2007, he had 8 touchdowns, 111+ receptions, and over a thousand yards.
quote:
You must have an extremely short memory because Randy Moss was this for a good while.
Wow, one top line WR for 3 years of his career. Name me another WR that he's had that was a physical freak like Randy. Until 2007, he had Troy Brown, Givens, Branch, Gaffney. Woohoo, thats talent there.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:30 pm to pankReb
He had Moss for two years pretty much...
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:31 pm to Jcorye1
So I guess that Eli will be better than Brees too with another SB win?
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:31 pm to Powerman
quote:
And that proves that Aaron Brooks is better than Steve Young, Favre, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, both Mannings in the post season? I wouldn't take statistics too seriously...
Well duh. That is why he only included QBs with 20+ starts. Tim Tebow was probably high on that list after the Pittsburgh game. The sample size is too small to be significant for some QBs like Aaron Brooks.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:32 pm to pankReb
quote:
Wes Welker was a beast before Tom Brady. He lit teams up while at Texas Tech.....and unless you know something I don't, Tom Brady wasn't there.
COLLEGE? Are you serious dude?
Welker had 1321 yards in four years before Brady. In his five years with Brady - 6105
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:33 pm to TulaneTigerFan
Eli is already better than Marino.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:33 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
So I guess that Eli will be better than Brees too with another SB win?
Eli had a fantastic season, but people are just jumping overboard with all this love he's getting.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:33 pm to pankReb
quote:
Wes Welker was a beast before Tom Brady.
lol
Yes, we know he was a stud at TT, but he really tore it up in San Diego and Miami.
Before he want to NE, Welker was basically Kevin Walter, and I am comparing him to another white wide receiver on purpose.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:34 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Wow, one top line WR for 3 years of his career. Name me another WR that he's had that was a physical freak like Randy.
Yes! This is now a Randy Moss thread.
Runs off to get lotion and Kleenex.
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:35 pm to Jcorye1
The MSB's QB ranking:
Brady
Big Ben
Eli (assuming the Giants win)
Peyton/Brees/Rodgers
Brady
Big Ben
Eli (assuming the Giants win)
Peyton/Brees/Rodgers
Posted on 1/23/12 at 6:36 pm to TulaneTigerFan
Big Ben?
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