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re: How much harder is it actually for an athlete to get into Notre Dame than...
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:53 am to rocket31
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:53 am to rocket31
quote:
there is a stigma surrounding *stupidity* in the SEC that i believe to be largely untrue, but there is quite possibly some truth to the stereotype.
This stigma is being propagated more and more in the last few years by schools from other conferences. It's no coincidence that this campaign has coincided with the SEC's recent dominance on the field......I mean now you have the University Oklahoma and other Big 12 schools claiming they're a better fit in the PAC 12 for academic reasons. That's clearly laughable (Phil Loadbolt anyone?).
Jim Delaney had some borderline racist comments a few years ago trying to make excuses for the SEC title streak. It seems ever since then fans, media and other schools have jumped on board.
This post was edited on 9/14/11 at 11:55 am
1
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:54 am to VABuckeye
quote:
Incorrect. Notre Dame, Michigan and plenty of other schools have academic casualties that can't get in.
no reasonable person disputes this - it happens with schools with lower standards (for general student admission) as well tho.
what I may have missed is a real discussion with something resembling proof of a difference in admission standards being applied
at first glance it seems reasonable to assume that a school like Notre Dame has more rigorous admission standards for their football recruits than a school like FSU, OU, or Alabama has for their football recruits - but in spite of this being a major talking point I have yet to see a real breakdown of how this happens
in the first half of the 2000 decade I remember reading an article (maybe around 2005? not sure) that said the average SAT score of the OU football players was higher than the average SAT score of the Notre Dame players. Was that really true? I don't know - but it was enough for me to question all the rhetoric about Notre Dame's football problems being linked to their academic standards
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:55 am to VABuckeye
i do not know about michigan but we havent lost a recruit because of academics in years.
we stopped recruiting deanthony arnett well before signing day because he did not want to take the calculus requirement over the summer but stopping a recruitment of someone is much different than an academic causality; although i guess they can be interpreted similarly.
we stopped recruiting deanthony arnett well before signing day because he did not want to take the calculus requirement over the summer but stopping a recruitment of someone is much different than an academic causality; although i guess they can be interpreted similarly.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:56 am to bbap
Not really.
But you are a pretty stupid/stubborn individual, which is why this site needs an ignore feature.
But you are a pretty stupid/stubborn individual, which is why this site needs an ignore feature.
This post was edited on 9/14/11 at 11:57 am
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:57 am to noladan
quote:
This stigma is being propagated more and more in the last few years by schools from other conferences.
To be honest the fact that so many SEC athletes end up going to prep school, hence the "oversigning" has led to this stigma. The argument is that the schools are trying to help the athletes but the fact is that they're non academic qualifiers in the first place.
Yes, other schools (Ohio State has done it) have players that go the prep school route but not on the scale that the SEC has done in the past. With the new rules your conference has in place about signing numbers I expect that this argument will go away in the next couple of years.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:57 am to Sophandros
right because you say so. take a deep breath and go back and read your posts and ask yourself if thats how adults act.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 11:59 am to molsusports
I agree with you. Lou Holtz bitched about Ohio State beating him in 1995 and 1996 (thorough arse whippings btw) stating that Ohio State beat him with kids he couldn't get into Notre Dame. Honestly, I think they've just used the argument as a crutch whenever they got beaten on the field.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:00 pm to rocket31
Michigan lost their top recruit last year to academics and went ape shite about it. Demar Dorsey or something like that.
It looked like academic fraud to me. Kid was a 1.0 student then got home schooled and magically pulled nearly a 4.0. On top of that the English language was an adversary to him.
It looked like academic fraud to me. Kid was a 1.0 student then got home schooled and magically pulled nearly a 4.0. On top of that the English language was an adversary to him.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:01 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
To be honest the fact that so many SEC athletes end up going to prep school, hence the "oversigning" has led to this stigma.
Except that it's not SO many. LSU doesn't usually have too many that go the prep school route. Maybe one a year (maybe?).....And like you said the oversigning thing has been amended. So that will soon be a moot point.....And not all SEC schools were oversigning to begin with. It was mostly the SEC west schools.
This post was edited on 9/14/11 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:02 pm to bbap
quote:
right because you say so. take a deep breath and go back and read your posts and ask yourself if thats how adults act.
Whatever, dude.
One of us started making personal statements, and it wasn't the one of us with an avatar.
This post was edited on 9/14/11 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:04 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Yes, other schools (Ohio State has done it) have players that go the prep school route but not on the scale that the SEC has done in the past.
schools like kansas state have been a lot worse about this than the SEC powers - they depend on landing those types of recruits instead of the guys coming straight out of high school
there are exceptions for sure - the five stars who can't get qualified... but those ending up being heavily courted by schools around the country (including by schools with good academic reputations like USC)
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:05 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
It looked like academic fraud to me. Kid was a 1.0 student then got home schooled and magically pulled nearly a 4.0. On top of that the English language was an adversary to him.
WTF. Damn athletes be gettin hooked up in HS and College
This post was edited on 9/14/11 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:05 pm to noladan
Mississippi (both schools), Arkansas and South Carolina were the worst at oversigning off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure LSU has had more than a single prep schooler per year but I could be wrong. A simple look at recent LOI's signed in the past 5 years or so would show how many there were.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:07 pm to VABuckeye
I know Ole Miss was the worst. They signed some ungodly number a couple of years back. LSU and 'Bama were usually oversigning by 3 or 4 a year as well if memory serves.
And for the record, I really think this oversigning issue is one that needs to be discussed. It's clearly wrong IMO to oversign by 10 a year like Ole Miss did one year. But there is normal attrition that happens, and I can certainly see why coaches would want to account for that.
And for the record, I really think this oversigning issue is one that needs to be discussed. It's clearly wrong IMO to oversign by 10 a year like Ole Miss did one year. But there is normal attrition that happens, and I can certainly see why coaches would want to account for that.
This post was edited on 9/14/11 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:08 pm to noladan
IIRC, one of the Miss schools had like 35 signees one year.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:08 pm to molsusports
Houston Nutt signing 37 and then trying to justify it was the final straw. That was idiotic on his part and the university should have stepped in.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:10 pm to noladan
Look at Nick Saban's medical unable to performs compared to other schools. He has multiples of the national average every year.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:11 pm to noladan
I can tell yall that at Stanford, our coaches look at a net of 200-300 potential athletes who are good enough academically and physically to play at Stanford.
I know for a fact most of our guys have over a 3.5 gpa in high school and 1000+ SAT score on the old system. We cannot offer an athlete a scholarship until we hear from the admissions office on whether he will be accepted.
I know for a fact most of our guys have over a 3.5 gpa in high school and 1000+ SAT score on the old system. We cannot offer an athlete a scholarship until we hear from the admissions office on whether he will be accepted.
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:11 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Mississippi (both schools), Arkansas and South Carolina were the worst at oversigning off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure LSU has had more than a single prep schooler per year but I could be wrong. A simple look at recent LOI's signed in the past 5 years or so would show how many there were.
getting qualified and oversigning are overlapping but different issues
some kids are unable to stay academically qualified because of a lack of academic ability/preparation or effort. But the larger reason for high turnover on college rosters (bringing in more than 85 kids per four years) is because it brings a competitive advantage. When you can bring in more kids and keep the ones who turn out to be better football players then you have an advantage over your competitors who do not
Posted on 9/14/11 at 12:18 pm to bbap
Posted this in a thread the other day about "canning Kelly":
Do we lose a few recruits because of ineligibility? Yes, but it's really not that many, and especially not as many as most ND fans act.
But I think the one thing regarding academics that's really big is the stress and time that goes into it at ND. The football players all take regular classes and there are no "football" majors at ND like kinesiology, mass comm, etc. Academics for the players takes up a lot of time and causes a lot of stress, too. There are four players (Te'o, Cave, T.J. Jones, and Toma) in my 18-person Spanish class and they're all expected to contribute the exact same as everyone else (and for the most part do. And you have to be prepared in a class that small, because you talk and are called on a lot). We also had a test last Friday (day before Michigan) which was pretty difficult (I studied pretty hard for it, got low 80s if I had to guess), and right before the test, Toma said, "and people wonder why we can't win games". He said it as a joke, but there's probably some truth.
Do we lose a few recruits because of ineligibility? Yes, but it's really not that many, and especially not as many as most ND fans act.
But I think the one thing regarding academics that's really big is the stress and time that goes into it at ND. The football players all take regular classes and there are no "football" majors at ND like kinesiology, mass comm, etc. Academics for the players takes up a lot of time and causes a lot of stress, too. There are four players (Te'o, Cave, T.J. Jones, and Toma) in my 18-person Spanish class and they're all expected to contribute the exact same as everyone else (and for the most part do. And you have to be prepared in a class that small, because you talk and are called on a lot). We also had a test last Friday (day before Michigan) which was pretty difficult (I studied pretty hard for it, got low 80s if I had to guess), and right before the test, Toma said, "and people wonder why we can't win games". He said it as a joke, but there's probably some truth.
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