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re: Freeh report is out: "PSU showed 'total disregard' for Sandusky victims"
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:38 pm to lsu6294
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:38 pm to lsu6294
At this point, probation or the death penalty is out of the question.
It's an insult to the families to even try and show justice in that manner. Anybody associated with this should be dismissed, but what does probation do? It will punish O'Brian and his staff and the players...
...just clean the slate and move on.
It's an insult to the families to even try and show justice in that manner. Anybody associated with this should be dismissed, but what does probation do? It will punish O'Brian and his staff and the players...
...just clean the slate and move on.
1
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:39 pm to TexasTiger08
Agreed.
Prosecute those involved with covering it up, move on to the civil court process.
Prosecute those involved with covering it up, move on to the civil court process.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:43 pm to Sophandros
I am pretty sure every other facet of this has been beat to death in this thread. But that's all I can think of. People calling in wanting the death penalty and probation.
That does nothing to the people who committed the crime.
I wanted to think JoePa was above all this, but obviously that seems to be wrong as well. Take down the statue, and don't glorify him. Yes, recognize the teams and the men who played on the field, but no need to glorify that man at this point...
That does nothing to the people who committed the crime.
I wanted to think JoePa was above all this, but obviously that seems to be wrong as well. Take down the statue, and don't glorify him. Yes, recognize the teams and the men who played on the field, but no need to glorify that man at this point...
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:44 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Because one has jurisdiction over this issue and the other doesn't.
as the article I linked from the interview with Emmert said.....ETHICAL GUIDELINES fall under LOIC.
good god. The NCAA DOES have jurisdiction over the athletic programs of its member schools. PSU has an athletic program in the NCAA.
The NCAA is not a legal entity like a government. It is a membership organization ,and it therefore has JURISDICTION over its members.
Emmert is going to go after them, and they cant sue and win. Membership is not forced, it is a choice.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:46 pm to slackster
quote:
It reminds me of that scene on A Few Good Men where Cruise asks the guy how was he able to eat at Gitmo when the standard operating procedures did not addess the location of the mess hall.
Yeah...that's exactly how due process and fair notice of what's prohibited works in this country...
nevermind power of jurisdiction. It's become apparent that those advocating NCAA death penalty understand our systems like a child and don't know jack shite about how this nation works. NCAA is not Ceasar friends...we live in a country with well-defined parameters.
This post was edited on 7/12/12 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:47 pm to TexasTiger08
The point of sanctions is that if the program did things to gain an advantage on the field by paying players or boosters giving money and favors the program is punished. This is a criminal and civil matter and not an athletics matter though it took place in the football program. The crimes were criminal in the abuse and the coverup. This wasn't about cheating at football to win games.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:51 pm to Zamoro10
quote:THE NCAA IS A MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION.
nevermind power of jurisdiction.
THEY HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THEIR MEMBER INSTITUTIONS.
Under LOIC, strict ethical guidelines exist. Emmert said so himself. Somehow I think you're confusing the legal system with the a membership organization. No, I know for a fact you are...
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:53 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
The point of sanctions is that if the program did things to gain an advantage on the field by paying players or boosters giving money and favors the program is punished.
swing and a miss. LOIC includes ethical guidelines for coaches.
I'm pretty sure the covering up of 52 counts of child abuse falls under those ethical guidelines.
The NCAA AND the legal system can go after them. they both have rights to do so.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 2:54 pm to monz29
quote:
monz29
quote:
understand that JoePa thought he was doing the right thing by handing the situation over to the board, but he should have had enough common sense to follow through with the issues and not keep his head buried in the sand and see this monster around the campus with other kids.
You don't have to read the report but, frick, read the articles that summarized it!
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:02 pm to CptBengal
Let's look at what Emmert said in that interview, in context:
quote:
Ryssdal: I want to start with Penn State, obviously. The NCAA's position so far, your statements, have been that you'll let the law play out and then the NCAA will investigate as appropriate. I wonder, though, whether this isn't another example of big-time sports, big-money sports, driving institutions of higher education.
Emmert: Well clearly if those allegations are true, they're obviously despicable and they point to a culture that is fundamentally awry in which that kind of behavior could occur without being responded to in all the appropriate ways.
Ryssdal: As the body that is charged, in theory, with guaranteeing the safety of student athletes in American colleges and universities, how are you going to do that? What is your role in something like Penn State?
Emmert: Well we have rules and bylaws that -- while they were never written to address anything quite like this of course -- they speak directly to the control that institutions have to maintain over their athletic departments and their programs. And they speak very directly to ethical behavior of people in those programs and we'll apply those bylaws, and if the allegations hold up, then we'll act accordingly.
Ryssdal: Let me make sure I understand you: There is room here for NCAA sanctions against Penn State?
Emmert: We have a very strong interest in making sure that our programs are reflective of the best values of athletics and of universities.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:03 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
It's become apparent that those advocating NCAA death penalty understand our systems like a child and don't know jack shite about how this nation works. NCAA is not Ceasar friends...we live in a country with well-defined parameters.
This.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:03 pm to CptBengal
Man this whole thing is so sad. What a mess! I do think the NCAA should step in and sanction Penn St and here is why. First off, im an Ohio State fan. Second, i agree with everything that Ohio State was given in terms of punishment by the NCAA and the dissmissal of Jim Tressel by the university. Lets think back to Ohio States violations. Student athletes sold merchandise in exchange for tatoos. The big mistake was that when informed of these infractions, Tress covered up the crime. Tress coverd it up because he wanted to win, and to protect the image of the university and football program.....put that in perspective! Joe Paterno and Penn St, when informed of child rape, covered up the crime to protect the image of Joe and the football program. That is called "competitive advantage", which is exactly what the NCAA hit Ohio State for. Lost scholarships and bowl banned....all over tatoos! In this case the difference in crime is CHILD RAPE!!! The NCAA has to act in this case. What that punishment is, i dont have the answers, but to punish a school for tatoos and let another school go free for child rape would be immoral.
This post was edited on 7/12/12 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:09 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
The point of sanctions is that if the program did things to gain an advantage on the field by paying players or boosters giving money and favors the program is punished. This is a criminal and civil matter and not an athletics matter though it took place in the football program. The crimes were criminal in the abuse and the coverup. This wasn't about cheating at football to win games.
I'm a little on the fence on this one - but probably more on the side of the NCAA should mete out some discipline the longer I think about it.
True - it wasn't like they were slipping recruits hundred dollar handshakes to get them on campus - but I think they knew about Sandusky for years (even before 1998) and didn't act because he helped them win lots of football games. In that sense their actions were reprehensible because they were actions taken to win more football games.
In spite of this I don't really think that was their primary motivation; I think the primary motivation for Paterno and the others at PSU was muddier because it had to involve a lot of discomfort and willful denial of the child molestation that had been going on under their watch by a person that they loved and greatly respected. This case is about something more important than football and really must have gnawed at their souls if they had been forced to think about it directly.
Second Mile was founded in 1977 - IMO people had to have seen things for decades and I can not believe that Paterno among others did not see enough to conclude what was going on.
We like explanations for things that are quick and dirty - where there is a completely good person or a completely bad person who we can vilify. But I think the truth in this case is much uglier because the people at PSU like Paterno made mistakes that many other people might have made. Most of us are just lucky not to be faced with having a person we loved and respected turn out to be a monster.
Doing the right thing when faced with that situation is hard - and Paterno just plain fell short of what he should have done. Having covered up any single incident he and the others involved were less able to act on anything else they might have seen in the years that followed.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:10 pm to Sophandros
quote:
like a child and don't know jack shite about how this nation works. NCAA is not Ceasar friends...we live in a country with well-defined parameters.
The NCAA is a membership organization. As Emmert said, they will pursue their own justice under their own ethical bylaws they have. His quote about those guidelines under LOIC seems to speak directly to the matter.
He doesnt say that the criminal and civil cases preclude his action in the matter.
This isn't hard. The NCAA is certainly able and legally able to pursue a separate and parallel course of investigation and punishment against its member institutions...regardless of what is done in criminal and civil court.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:13 pm to CptBengal
quote:
good god. The NCAA DOES have jurisdiction over the athletic programs of its member schools. PSU has an athletic program in the NCAA. The NCAA is not a legal entity like a government. It is a membership organization ,and it therefore has JURISDICTION over its members. Emmert is going to go after them, and they cant sue and win. Membership is not forced, it is a choice.
This might be the best post I've ever read on this site.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:13 pm to CptBengal
They won't give you what you want, though.
Penn State will NOT get the death penalty.
Penn State will NOT get the death penalty.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:15 pm to Sophandros
quote:I'll bet they get hit way harder than Ohio State or USC did though...way harder.
They won't give you what you want, though.
Penn State will NOT get the death penalty.
btw, your "jurisdiction" bullshite was flat wrong.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:15 pm to Sophandros
quote:
They won't give you what you want, though.
Penn State will NOT get the death penalty.
So now you're changing your argument? Originally it was the NCAA shouldn't do anything...
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:16 pm to CptBengal
quote:
btw, your "jurisdiction" bullshite was flat wrong.
Fair enough, but not really a big deal.
Posted on 7/12/12 at 3:18 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
So now you're changing your argument? Originally it was the NCAA shouldn't do anything...
I'm not changing my argument at all.
IN MY OPINION, the NCAA shouldn't do anything, as long as the individuals who participated in the cover up are punished to the full extent of the law. That has been my argument since about Page 1.
Whether or not they will do something is completely different, and NO ONE KNOWS the answer to that.
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