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re: F1 2019 Season Thread (Next race: Dec. 1 Abu Dhabi)
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:11 am to jordan21210
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:11 am to jordan21210
Fair enough
1
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:13 am to wutangfinancial
quote:
Indy has push to pass isn't that a gimmick?
It is but it's better than DRS because there's more strategy to it. The DTM series actually has both.
This post was edited on 7/30/19 at 11:20 am
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:13 am to MountainTiger
Probably just a poor choice of words. I see what he was getting at.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:39 am to MountainTiger
P2P is fine. Definitely better than DRS. Can be used for attacking and defending. Not sure how this would be implemented in a open formula type series (other than saying you get x amount of seconds of running higher boost, or it could be tied into a KERS type system)
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:45 am to jordan21210
I don’t think weather is a gimmick, rain produced Indy’s best race this year as well. However, needing rain to have a good race is obviously not great from an entertainment standpoint.
Fortunately F1 seems to be pulling out of the early season funk with the past 3 races. Mercedes not being perfect at everything really helps, who would have thought?
Fortunately F1 seems to be pulling out of the early season funk with the past 3 races. Mercedes not being perfect at everything really helps, who would have thought?
Posted on 7/30/19 at 2:31 pm to Cocotheape
quote:
Not sure how this would be implemented in a open formula type series (other than saying you get x amount of seconds of running higher boost, or it could be tied into a KERS type system)
It could still be a flap in the rear wing. What needs to change are the rules for when to use it. Right now, you can only activate it in DRS zones and you have to be less than a second behind the car in front of you. If they changed that so that the total use time is limited and it could be activated anywhere at any time, then it would effectively be like P2P. I think Indy gives you 200 seconds total of P2P.
I like your idea of using the MGU-H too.
This post was edited on 7/30/19 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 7/30/19 at 4:32 pm to MountainTiger
You are correct. Indy has 200 seconds of P2P and it seems to be enough for them.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 4:34 pm to CobraCommander83
I'm a very casual fan so I didn't realize that the DRS wasn't limited like the P2P is in Indy, besides the 1 second rule and the zones.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 5:02 pm to wutangfinancial
Yeah the P2P in Indy can be used at anytime during the race. The only downfall to it is that teams can see when it is being used by other drivers and they can quickly radio to their driver that the driver chasing them is using P2P.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 10:38 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
quote:
So my point is, for the new F1 2021 rules, if they go back to re-fueling and get the tire compounds right, they can get back to better racing without gimmicks
F1 has had the gimmick of tire wear for the last few years. This solution isn't any better.
That said. What I hope F1 never goes down to the levels that has made Indy 'interesting'
This post was edited on 7/30/19 at 11:00 pm
Posted on 7/31/19 at 7:15 am to fightin tigers
quote:
F1 has had the gimmick of tire wear for the last few years. This solution isn't any better.
While I agree that forcing teams to use multiple compounds during a race is a gimmick, offering a choice of compounds is not. It's a great way to make the racing more interesting. The compounds just have to be designed in a way that offers real choices.
quote:
That said. What I hope F1 never goes down to the levels that has made Indy 'interesting'
I hate to break it to you, but many of the proposed 2021 changes go down that road. For example:
- Spec brakes, wheels, radiators, etc.
- Tunnels instead of flat bottoms (generate most of the downforce via the undertray). This will have a huge effect on suspension settings and make them more Indy-like.
- No tire blankets. Leaving pit lane on cold tires! F1 drivers who switched to IndyCar have mentioned having to learn to drive on cold tires.
If you look up Ross Brawn's discussions on changing the 2021 regs to improve the racing, he mentions IndyCar a lot, and about what recent design changes have worked or not worked. Somehow people within F1 are less arrogant about learning from IndyCar than F1 fans.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 8:13 am to fightin tigers
quote:
That said. What I hope F1 never goes down to the levels that has made Indy 'interesting'
In a perfect world, CART would still run the show, the split would have never happened, etc. I don’t think anyone would choose the same path for American open wheel racing even though the product is very competitive and entertaining right now.
That being said, rising costs are an issue that would have had to be addressed at some point. It’s become a crisis in WEC LMP1, DTM, and essentially any racing series with relatively open formula. It’s coming for F1 too, obviously.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 9:46 am to TouchedTheAxeIn82
quote:
While I agree that forcing teams to use multiple compounds during a race is a gimmick, offering a choice of compounds is not. It's a great way to make the racing more interesting. The compounds just have to be designed in a way that offers real choices.
The gimmick is forced tire wear and F1 mandating fall off and such.
I do think that a spending cap puts most of the teams on a level playing field the fastest. Putting a development cap on engine development might bring in other manufacturers as well.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 9:49 am to fightin tigers
Firestone does a really great job with tires for Indy. It’s an infinitely easier job with everyone having the same chassis, but issues with tires are few and far between. The balance between the standard blacks and the softer reds seems just about perfect. Nothing is missed by not having a third compound IMO
Posted on 7/31/19 at 10:35 am to fightin tigers
quote:
The gimmick is forced tire wear and F1 mandating fall off and such.
I guess you can call it a gimmick. They were trying to introduce more pit stops during the race, which creates more options for race strategy. Their heart was in the right place but the implementation was bad. (Not Pirelli's fault by the way. They just make the tires that F1 tell them to make.)
I think putting refueling back in and limiting fuel tank capacity will do the same thing. So the cars will be fuel-limited rather than tire-limited.
As for a spending cap, if they can pull it off, that's certainly a good way to level the playing field. But the trick is being able to enforce it. It seems like there would be millions of ways to cheat at that. I'm not opposed to it but I'm skeptical that it would work.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 10:38 am to MountainTiger
Seems like the biggest thing F1 needs is just a limit on downforce. Not changes to the front wings or barge boards, just a straight up limit that the car can’t produce more than x lbs of downforce. Get there however you want, crazy wings, ground effect, whatever.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 10:39 am to Cocotheape
quote:
Seems like the biggest thing F1 needs is just a limit on downforce. Not changes to the front wings or barge boards, just a straight up limit that the car can’t produce more than x lbs of downforce. Get there however you want, crazy wings, ground effect, whatever.
I couldn't agree more. Are we trying to find the team that can design the best car or the best airplane?
That said, the teams that can afford the most wind tunnel time and CFD will still dominate. I think teams that can afford to spend more money developing aero than the engines.
This post was edited on 7/31/19 at 10:54 am
Posted on 7/31/19 at 11:02 am to MountainTiger
All of the stuff with tires and passing gimmicks when they just need to turn on the sprinklers at random races.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 5:55 pm to Cocotheape
quote:
Seems like the biggest thing F1 needs is just a limit on downforce
I've said it for almost 30 years limit aero grip increase mechanical grip.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 6:01 pm to Obtuse1
Aero is for teams who can't build an engine correctly.
-- Some Italian Guy.
-- Some Italian Guy.
This post was edited on 7/31/19 at 6:02 pm
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