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Message
re: Do any fans of a successful CFB program bitch about their coach more
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:03 am to Choupique19
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:03 am to Choupique19
quote:
But if these other guys watch LSU games and don't see poor coaching decisions being made, and that LSU's offense is woefully underperforming for 5 years now, then they don't know football.
I think everyone agrees about the offense. As for the poor coaching, my contention is that it is no worse than 99% of other teams/coaches, its just that as an LSU fan you notice what you think is bad coaching and hang on to the calls you think are particularly bad. You don't watch other teams with as critical an eye as you do LSU and even when you do, you won't remember it as long.
1
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:06 am to Baloo
quote:
But I think the telling part is the "I've never been a fan" part. People, not to single out Cocomo who is making legitimately valid criticisms, tend to make facts fit their initial perceptions. We don't want to change our opinions.
I'd agree with that, and I know it wasn't directed at me, but I am not immune to changing my tune on someone. To be honest, last year left a bad taste in my mouth on Miles, with the whole way the Lee/JJ thing was handled. Obviously, had we won on 1/9, I would have likely come around a bit more on him, so to speak, but obviously that didn't happen and IMO it was due to Miles's stubbornness.
quote:
It's just that legitimate discussion points get lost in people's delusion. The criticisms of Miles are way out of proportion to his sins. It's not that he's perfect or immune from criticism, it's just that so much of the criticism lobbed his way is so ridiculous, it becomes too easy to dismiss the valid criticisms as well, as we're taking out all of the trash.
This is also true, but let's not forget that most of what we're basing these opinions on is coming from an online message board where people are allowed to (and often go there specifically for) vent their frustrations with everything LSU related. I'd bet that most people posting on the rant, even the rantards, don't fully buy into most of what they post. But this place is an easy place to just vent and bitch about shite, and like you said, valid criticisms tend to get lost in the shuffle with all the other bullshite being tossed around. Also, often times it becomes a battle of assholery with the pro-Miles vs. anti-Miles crews.
The thing that sucks for me, like SFP alluded to, is that I am just becoming apathetic to it. The last few years of LSU football have not been easy to swallow IMO...because you can tell that the talent is there, but there were glaring issues that simply weren't handled (QB, game management, etc.) and so while we were relatively successful, it wasn't how we "should have" been playing. And seeing the same shite year in and year out can easily wear on a fanbase and cause all of the bullshite-spewing that we're seeing now.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
is it wrong to have expectations?
No. My expectations are for LSU to win a lot and contend for titles. Miles meets these expectations, as you admit. It's the constant shifting of the goalposts, just inventing new criteria that drives me insane. It makes me pretty much disregard all of your other arguments, which I admit, leads me to discard legitimate arguments as Cocomo points out.
If you're frustrated right now, I think it says a lot more about you than LSU football. The only time I was truly frustrated was the BCSCG. I've gotten over it.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:07 am to H-Town Tiger
the offensive stuff also seems more apparent with so many teams going to an offensive-based philosophy
clemson being our last opponent kind of hit that point home
clemson being our last opponent kind of hit that point home
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:09 am to Choupique19
quote:
Coco, I liked your post.
No you didn't.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:09 am to Choupique19
quote:
I noticed that nobody defended the timeout with 5 seconds left in the half? That is a perfect example of Miles not being able to think ahead
I didn't see the CFA bowl, it was NYE and I had plans, I didn't bother to watch after my phone blew up Monday night
If your standard is a coach that never makes a bad call or never gets caught in a bad situation, you will never be happy. To say Miles gets away with is just excuse making. There are good call and bad ones, if you make more bad than good you will lose more often than not.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:11 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
The thing that sucks for me, like SFP alluded to, is that I am just becoming apathetic to it. The last few years of LSU football have not been easy to swallow IMO.
And I think the exact opposite. This has been three of the most exciting years of football watching of my lifetime. Except 2007, which was also Miles. LSU games are incredibly exciting right now, and I don't think there's a more interesting program in the country. Now, this year was a bit of a disappointment, but I really don't have much to complain about 2010 and 2011, save the BCSCG. And this year wasn't that big of a disappointment, and there was a whole host of reasonable reasons to measure our expectations due to personnel losses.
Really, the difference between Saban and Miles the past two seasons is luck. Saban has had it, and Miles hasn't. It happens. That's football. And life.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:13 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:I certainly do.
no,
quote:No argument there. As long as Bama has our coach and they are doing better than us, it is going to be that much tougher for Les.
but then this is an example of the real problem. Saban's specture hangs over LSU.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:15 am to CocomoLSU
I liked that you notice that I didn't officially like your post.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:16 am to Baloo
quote:
. It's the constant shifting of the goalposts, just inventing new criteria that drives me insane.
i think the original contention of the negatigers wants our team to play to its maximum potential in every game. winning will come if we do that. and that's subjective, but so is your standard
that hasn't really changed over the years. there really hasn't been a "moving of the goalposts"
a major reason why that line of thinking is discarded by many is its close association with "the process" of Saban, but i mean it fricking works
quote:
If you're frustrated right now, I think it says a lot more about you than LSU football.
i'll give you a perfect example
how often do we play crap teams close? and i don't even mean Clemson....i mean Ole Miss/Arkansas/Auburn
do we win? yes
are they frustrating? WITHOUT A DOUBT
i don't know why it happens, exactly, but it does
now i'll tell you what sucks, and that's when a contingent of our fanbase blames these sorts of games on the players in an effort to defend Miles. our defense played its fricking arse off against Clemson. vidal was obviously overmatched, so i'm not going to blame him, either. but in an effort to defend miles, lots of people are criticizing the players solely to defend miles. that shite annoys me more than anything
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:18 am to AlexLSU
quote:
Has any coach cost his players more in the last year than Miles?
Petrino and Kiffin come to mind.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:there's also those who do the exact opposite. It can be both players and coaches at fault.
now i'll tell you what sucks, and that's when a contingent of our fanbase blames these sorts of games on the players in an effort to defend Miles
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:21 am to Baloo
quote:Really? Chance favors the prepared.
Really, the difference between Saban and Miles the past two seasons is luck. Saban has had it, and Miles hasn't. It happens. That's football. And life.
It isn't about getting beat. I totally got over the Florida loss quickly. Clearly Mett just wasn't ready. But when every loss is so close and you can easliy point to a few absolutley brain dead coaching decisions that inexorably contribute to those losses, they become harder to swallow. And then there is the BCSNCG when you wonder what the hell they were doing for the previous month.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i think the original contention of the negatigers wants our team to play to its maximum potential in every game.
I have no idea what that means, or what it looks like. I don't think it's even possible to be honest.
It is, however, completely immeasurable and unverifiable and thus allows you free reign to be pissed all the time, I guess...
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i think the original contention of the negatigers wants our team to play to its maximum potential in every game.
Then you are doomed to be disappointed, because no team -- repeat NO TEAM -- in the history of football has ever or will ever do this. If that's your standard, it's a wholly unreasonable one and there's simply no reason to discuss fully.
No team will ever live up to that standard. So, yes, Miles fails to reach it, too. So does Saban. Bama has lucked into two title games, and people trip over themselves to talk about Process. He has a very good program that has gotten incredibly fortunate to be given the chance to play for the title. Twice. Good for him. But there's no system, other than winning the popularity contest of the polls.
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:23 am to Baloo
quote:
Really, the difference between Saban and Miles the past two seasons is luck. Saban has had it, and Miles hasn't. It happens.
i won't call 1/9/12 luck
i don't disagree with you, though
when your gameplan is to play so many games close, at the end it's going to come down to luck in a lot of them. LSU fans cannot complain about luck after 2007 and some things in 2011, but we have been unlucky
the most notable instance is 2008. JLee throwing a lot of picks is one thing, so many being magically returned for TDs is bad luck. some bad penalties monday night were bad luck. AU/UF 06 had a lot of bad luck
that is part of the overriding philosophy that drives me somewhat mad. when you play to have games end closely, which LSU does, you're decreasing any margin of error greatly
if we are mediocre, that's great (and led to 08/09 not being as bad as they could have been), but when you're supposed to be elite, i think it's a bad thing. when you're elite there are only a couple of games that you should worry about being close, so developing a system that ensures those stay close, while ensuring that many of the remainder of your games are close is creating a higher chance of losing games you shouldn't
just look at this year. Auburn, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Clemson, and even Towson. None of those games should have been close by the 3rd quarter
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:24 am to EmperorGout
quote:
I have no idea what that means, or what it looks like. I don't think it's even possible to be honest.
It is, however, completely immeasurable and unverifiable and thus allows you free reign to be pissed all the time, I guess...
so is saying you "want to contend for championships" every year and win "a lot" of games
the subjectivity knife cuts both ways
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i won't call 1/9/12 luck
He's referring to the dominoes falling in other games that allowed Saban to play in 2 title games the past two years
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:26 am to alajones
quote:
Really? Chance favors the prepared.
I think I've been through this with you before, but no amount of Nick Saban's process caused Oklahoma State to lose to Iowa State. If OSU wins that game, Bama does not get a rematch. Same thing this year with Oregon and KSU losing. They are prepared when they get into the game, but that doesn't change the fact they they needed luck to get there and why did they need luck to get in? Because they didn't play up to full potential twice in home games, one to a 13.5 underdog.
This post was edited on 1/2/13 at 11:30 am
Posted on 1/2/13 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
Usually, the national title comes down to luck. There's usually about 5-10 teams good enough to win it, and one team had more good fortune than the others. People don't want to believe that because it ruins some poetic notions of sport, but that's the way it goes. Saban is taking back-to-back one loss teams to the title game, one of whom didn't even win their conference title. That's amazing good fortune.
It's to his credit his team was in position to get lucky, you don't luck your way into consistent excellence. But LSU has been consistently excellent as well. So has Oregon, another team that has been misfortunate. They could just have easily played for the last two titles instead of Bama with literally no change in the results of the games.
It's to his credit his team was in position to get lucky, you don't luck your way into consistent excellence. But LSU has been consistently excellent as well. So has Oregon, another team that has been misfortunate. They could just have easily played for the last two titles instead of Bama with literally no change in the results of the games.
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