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re: Death to the BCS
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:01 pm to GeauxTigersLee
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:01 pm to GeauxTigersLee
quote:
Like it or not, they're still a power conference.
in football? they're the worst BCS conference and have been since basically the BCS started
quote:
Also, a playoff doesn't benefit the SEC...take a look at the past 4 national champions.
the cream rises to the top
plus a playoff = more money for the SEC/Big10. the Big10 hasn't won shite in a while but they rake money in hand over fist.
0
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
Whether you hink they deserve extre revenue is not relevant. I agree with you the big programs built CFB and are the reason it makes so much money, but Baloo is right, the SEC and B1G need the Sun Belt, CUSA and the MAC to fill out the schedule. The price for scheduling those teams has been going up so the big teams feel they deserve something. Plus they are all part of the NCAA, including them is not that big a deal and it saves the trouble of having some grandstanding senator from holding hearings or lawsuits etc.
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:02 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
I don't favor the 11 and 5 format, i'd rather a 4 team playoff, but the 11 / 5 is better than top 16 or top 8. Each conference would have to decide who gets their auto bid in the event of an unbreakable tie like 3 team ties. They could just take the highest ranked team, rps, up to them, but only 1 gets the auto bid. A team like USCe this year winning the SECCG or LSU in 2001 are why I hate CCG, but if that's who the SEC wants to get the auto bid, that's their choice.
I would never favor more than 8 teams. I'd add my play 6 bcs teams or you are screwed clause as well. No cakewalking to the playoffs - you earn it on the field against competition worth a frick. Get rid of the preseason polls, let all 120 coaches vote, and you take the top 4-8 teams, period.
Then again, that's just on the surface of qualifying for a playoff, but it is logistically and financially not going to happen. There is far more money in this current system than a 4/8 team playoff.
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:04 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
the SEC and B1G need the Sun Belt, CUSA and the MAC to fill out the schedule.
and these conferences WILLINGLY accept their role for the paycheck
quote:
Plus they are all part of the NCAA,
and i truly believe a new division will be formed before any playoff is taken seriously
this will completely frick the non-BCS conferences financially, but it will be required from the big boys i reckon
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Look, there's a reason the NCAA doesn't recognize a football champion. It's an indictment of the system.
because they only recognize playoff systems with at least 16 participants, i believe
False, they only recognise champions from a playoff system that includes all conference champions.
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:05 pm to GamecockAlum
quote:
There is far more money in this current system than a 4/8 team playoff.
i seriously doubt this
but this system spreads the money around more
the NCAA receives a shite-ton from march fricking madness. CFB is a lot more popular than CBB. i can only imagine the tv deals for a CFB playoff
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:06 pm to GeauxTigersLee
quote:
False, they only recognise champions from a playoff system that includes all conference champions.
which is stupid
and it is basically a 16 team playoff anyway (with 11 conferences, you have to go to at least 16)
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
I think you just invent issues and say "we can't do it! Can't be done!"
March Madness is a cash cow, yet schools have managed to figure out a way to split the money to keep the large conferences happy. I'm willing to bet it's not an even split between all 31 conferences. Basketball has, what, a billion dollar contract? Yes, football would be different, but not SO different as to be unworkable.
How is this some crippling hurdle? The top conferences would clearly get a larger share of the money. And I have no problem with a seperation of the haves and have-nots, and neither do you. So don't pretend, and be honest in your arguments. I don't think C-USA should be treated as an equal, just that if they are in D-1, there should be a mechanism in place to give their teams a shot. Just a shot. Of course the SEC would get more money. That's no some insurmountable hurdle. C-USA would get a shot, get some share of the money, but not an even share. Sports are meritocracy. Earn a bigger share by winning.
March Madness is a cash cow, yet schools have managed to figure out a way to split the money to keep the large conferences happy. I'm willing to bet it's not an even split between all 31 conferences. Basketball has, what, a billion dollar contract? Yes, football would be different, but not SO different as to be unworkable.
quote:If we're gonna play this game, most football programs lose money. Just not the big ones. Same with basketball.
CFB funds most athletic departments. BBall rarely even makes money. apples and oranges.
quote:And?
there is no way the SEC and Big10 would share equally with leech conferences. they'd demand a Texas-like share of the proceeds, which would further separate the haves and have nots, conference-wise
How is this some crippling hurdle? The top conferences would clearly get a larger share of the money. And I have no problem with a seperation of the haves and have-nots, and neither do you. So don't pretend, and be honest in your arguments. I don't think C-USA should be treated as an equal, just that if they are in D-1, there should be a mechanism in place to give their teams a shot. Just a shot. Of course the SEC would get more money. That's no some insurmountable hurdle. C-USA would get a shot, get some share of the money, but not an even share. Sports are meritocracy. Earn a bigger share by winning.
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:15 pm to Baloo
quote:
yet schools have managed to figure out a way to split the money to keep the large conferences happy.
what program supports its athletic department with basketball money?
i'm sure some exist, but i'm curious which do
quote:
most football programs lose money. Just not the big ones.
and?
quote:
Same with basketball.
the amount of revenue is not close to being the same. the stakes are less. much less
quote:
I don't think C-USA should be treated as an equal, just that if they are in D-1
just so you know, the proposal in Death to the BCS does offer an equal opportunity for the money
quote:
there should be a mechanism in place to give their teams a shot. Just a shot.
do you think CUSA would rather have the money the big boys give them or a shot?
i pick the money
quote:
Earn a bigger share by winning.
this is only part of it in CFB
there are obstacles the have nots cannot overcome
revenue is split almost evenly across 3 ways with elite programs: (1) gate revenue/merch, (2) tv deals, and (3) booster donations
1 and 3 are not achievable for shite schools. it just isn't possible
i'd rather just create a new division and put the small conferences down there, and let them have a playoff
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:16 pm to GamecockAlum
Gamecock, requiring 6 bcs teams is just a pussy way of saiying no one from outside the bcs can get in forget your stupid fantasy of teams could become independent and play who ever. Id also like you to tell us how playing Vandy, Duke, Wash St, Minnesota, Rutgers and Kansas is tougher than playing TCU, Boise, UCF, Nevada, Utah and Tulsa?
Top 4 would be best system and that would include TCU this chief.
Top 4 would be best system and that would include TCU this chief.
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:19 pm to GamecockAlum
This post was edited on 1/5/11 at 7:52 am
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:20 pm to H-Town Tiger
Thanks, H-Town. I don't approach the problem as what is the best from a blank slate, I approach it as what's the most practicable solution given the facts on the ground. I see no reason to invent facts.
SFP bitched about George Mason, but it's not like they actually won the title. "Accidental champions" are quite rare in NCAA basketball. I see no merit to the "omigod, the Sun Belt champ might win the title!" argument. They are added as fodder, and as a virtual bye for the #1 seed. In the last 25 years, the lowest seed to win is #6, and that happened once, 23 years ago. A #5 seed hasn't won, and only one #4 seed has, and that was 14 years ago. 23 of 25 champs have been a top 3 seed, 21 of 25 a top 2 seed, and 17 of 25 have been 1-seeds.
Hardly a random, unfair system, despite the hype. The cream usually rises to the top.
SFP bitched about George Mason, but it's not like they actually won the title. "Accidental champions" are quite rare in NCAA basketball. I see no merit to the "omigod, the Sun Belt champ might win the title!" argument. They are added as fodder, and as a virtual bye for the #1 seed. In the last 25 years, the lowest seed to win is #6, and that happened once, 23 years ago. A #5 seed hasn't won, and only one #4 seed has, and that was 14 years ago. 23 of 25 champs have been a top 3 seed, 21 of 25 a top 2 seed, and 17 of 25 have been 1-seeds.
Hardly a random, unfair system, despite the hype. The cream usually rises to the top.
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
CFB funds most athletic departments. BBall rarely even makes money. apples and oranges.
Not true. 68 FBS schools reported turning a profit on football in 2010, with a median value of $8.8 million. About the same amount turned a profit in basketball with a median value of $2.9 million. LINK
quote:
especially if you get a home game. that's like $5-6M in revenue
That's revenue. LSU has reported their net revenue (profit) from a home game against a non-BCS team is about $2.2 M.
quote:
dude, in the book in the title of this thread, it suggests $25M per team, per round. that's a shite-ton of money ESPECIALLY when you add in possible home games (which is a necessity when you move to more than 8 teams)
Haven't read the book, but would love to know where he comes up with $25 M per game....especially when you eliminate the title sponsors from the games.
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:23 pm to Baloo
quote:
I approach it as what's the most practicable solution given the facts
4-team playoff based on the BCS (or a similar, open system) is the most practicable solution
this includes pretty much every team who claims to have an argument over the life of the BCS
this is the most logical playoff system for title determination (which is what playoffs are supposed to do)
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I'd have no problem with this, either. But I think the big conferences know they need those small conferences for the rent-a-wins. I want the power conferences to choose: rent-a-wins but you give the litte guy a shot OR nothing but big games and keept the little guys out. I'd love Option 2, but don't think there's a chance in hell it would be adopted.
rather just create a new division and put the small conferences down there, and let them have a playoff
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:24 pm to Baloo
Simply a fantastic debate!
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:25 pm to Baloo
quote:
But I think the big conferences know they need those small conferences for the rent-a-wins.
they do this with 1-AA now. i don't see how this is a valid point when it's currently used
quote:
I want the power conferences to choose: rent-a-wins but you give the litte guy a shot OR nothing but big games and keept the little guys out.
why?
the little guys would HATE you
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
4-team playoff based on the BCS (or a similar, open system) is the most practicable solution
you thought 2003 was bad, I'd love to see the shite storm in 2006
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:27 pm to The Easter Bunny
OSU
UF
UM
LSU
KIND OF CONFERENCE-CENTRIC
UF
UM
LSU
KIND OF CONFERENCE-CENTRIC
Posted on 1/4/11 at 10:31 pm to Baloo
I have 2 beefs with GMU. 1 I liked LSU being the lowest seed to make the Final Four, GMU tied us. But more importantly,I've never correctly picked the FF in a bracket before that year I had LSU, UCLA, Florida and UConn damnit!
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