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re: Chicago Cubs Super Prospect Futureboner Sploosh Emporium Thread | Maddon Thread
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:20 pm to The Sad Banana
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:20 pm to The Sad Banana
Is that a premium ranking? Post the list if it's publicly available.
1
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:24 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
Basically, you're comparison was absolutely terrible. You can't compare the two because Braun was an MVP candidate from day 1
Dude, I was comparing their contracts & the timing.
Braun has exceeded the value of his contract from that time. To understand that, you must understand the timing and intent of the deal at the time. Can you really not grasp this?
If Braun would have had 3 seasons under his belt like the rookie year he had, he would certainly command more than the 8 years 45 million he got after just 1 year. But because it was only 1 year, the Brewers were able to get a bargain, and Braun was able to get some long term security.
In summation, BRAUN didn't need to improve to justify his deal. Even if he had stayed the same he was a bargain. The only way MIL losses is if he gets worse, which is part of the risk.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:25 pm to Louie T
quote:
And his worst defensive season by far.
I don't think there is anyone in the Cubs organization that will tell you that he is having his worst defensive season by far. You and LE might be obsessed with all the fancy Sabermetrics for defense, but if you actually watch him play, his game has gotten significantly better. His defense has improved. He is not a gold glover, but that doesn't mean he is having by far his worst defensive year.
quote:
but Braun "flatlining" was still a huge bargain whereas Castro isn't
Right, which makes the comparison a really really bad one. You can't compare their games because they aren't similar players and you can't compare their improvements, because Braun didn't really need to improve, whereas Castro did. It was a very bad comparison.
quote:And I think he is in the process of doing just that.
p in mind this could all be moot if he progresses like they want,
quote:
but it's not like what he has done is some ringing success up to this point.
Meh, I would say if you look at the regression from 2011 to 2012 and again from 2012 to 2013, the Cubs would consider this year a ringing success.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:26 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:28 pm to Louie T
I'm sorry, it was Baseball America.
The Baseball Prospectus list is subscriber only, but I think it has Russell (#3), Bryant (#5), Baez (#6) and Alcantara (#18!!!).
The Baseball Prospectus list is subscriber only, but I think it has Russell (#3), Bryant (#5), Baez (#6) and Alcantara (#18!!!).
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:30 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Dude, I was comparing their contracts & the timing. Braun has exceeded the value of his contract from that time.
Can you please explain to me then how Castro has not exceeded the value of his contract right now? He is making $5.8 million total this year. Is he not worth that amount of money? What he will make in 2019 is irrelevant to this year. Yes, he will need to improve to be worth 8 figures, but he isn't making that right now. He's making less than $6 in 2014. How is he not living up to the value of that contract?
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:30 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
You can't compare their games because they aren't similar players and you can't compare their improvements, because Braun didn't really need to improve, whereas Castro did. It was a very bad comparison
you are the only one that has compared their games. Seriously, go read back. I even corrected you the first time when I said I was talking about their contracts.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:31 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:I think the metrics LE and Louie T listed are range metrics, right? I don't know if that necessarily makes his defense "bad". DefWAR being negative is something, though. Even though it looks like his previous seasons have had him above average.
I don't think there is anyone in the Cubs organization that will tell you that he is having his worst defensive season by far. You and LE might be obsessed with all the fancy Sabermetrics for defense, but if you actually watch him play, his game has gotten significantly better. His defense has improved. He is not a gold glover, but that doesn't mean he is having by far his worst defensive year.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:31 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
Alcantara (#18!!!).
wow
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:34 pm to The Sad Banana
Jed Hoyer on Waddle and Silvy now fyi
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:34 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
you are the only one that has compared their games. Seriously, go read back. I even corrected you the first time when I said I was talking about their contracts.
Dude move on. I'm not comparing their games. I just said you can't compare their games. I misunderstood your one post a while back. I never tried to compare the games of Ryan Bruan to Castro.
You are the one saying that Castro isn't the player the Cubs hoped for when they signed the deal and I am trying to figure out how he isn't the player the Cubs hoped he would be. I don't think the Cubs thought they had an MVP caliber player. I think they thought they had a guy who could produce offensively and hit around the .300 mark. He seems to be doing that now.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:36 pm to PurpleAndGold86
Castro's an All-Star SS at 24. I think the Cubs are happy.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:36 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
Can you please explain to me then how Castro has not exceeded the value of his contract right now? He is making $5.8 million total this year. Is he not worth that amount of money? What he will make in 2019 is irrelevant to this year. Yes, he will need to improve to be worth 8 figures, but he isn't making that right now. He's making less than $6 in 2014. How is he not living up to the value of that contract?
He's playing well, but you're talking about 6% of the game's he'll play under this contract.
for fricks sake man
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:38 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
Castro's an All-Star SS at 24. I think the Cubs are happy.
3 time no less.
His defense isn't great, sure, but it's certainly being made way too big a deal of. Kid is good, his contract is team friendly, and while he may look aloof at times i certainly don't think profiles as a player who doesn't care. Can't imagine it's easy work to have a season like last and bounce back like this.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:39 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
He's playing well, but you're talking about 6% of the game's he'll play under this contract.
And you're also talking about less than 6% of the money that he will earn under this contract since it balloons at the end. You don't know that he won't continue to improve. I JUST said he will need to improve to be worth the 8 figures he will be earning by the end of his contract, but he has done nothing that would indicate that he will not continue to do exactly that.
You don't like Castro for whatever reason. We get it. Everyone gets it. But to say he isn't the player the Cubs thought they had when they signed him is ridiculous. For fricks sake.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:40 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:Sure thing. The ol' "trust me, I watch the team" routine.
I don't think there is anyone in the Cubs organization that will tell you that he is having his worst defensive season by far. You and LE might be obsessed with all the fancy Sabermetrics for defense, but if you actually watch him play, his game has gotten significantly better. His defense has improved. He is not a gold glover, but that doesn't mean he is having by far his worst defensive year.
quote:These types of deals are relatively new. There aren't a whole lot of guys you can highlight with similar deals. Bringing Braun's name up isn't out of line; him being awesome before the contract doesn't somehow invalidate why young guys are given these types of contracts.
Right, which makes the comparison a really really bad one. You can't compare their games because they aren't similar players and you can't compare their improvements, because Braun didn't really need to improve, whereas Castro did. It was a very bad comparison.
quote:That's fine; we're only on Y2 of his contract. It may very well pan out.
And I think he is in the process of doing just that.
quote:That's fine. He came nowhere near close to $5M production in the 1st year of the contract. He had to take a big step forward to justify his second year $5M salary. He's done that so that makes his contract OK, not exactly what I would considering a resounding success. He's going to have to take a number of significant steps to make the double-digit back years of his contract what they hoped for when they signed him.
Meh, I would say if you look at the regression from 2011 to 2012 and again from 2012 to 2013, the Cubs would consider this year a ringing success.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:41 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:His range metrics have largely been fine. His ErrR are what are alarmingly bad.
I think the metrics LE and Louie T listed are range metrics, right? I don't know if that necessarily makes his defense "bad". DefWAR being negative is something, though. Even though it looks like his previous seasons have had him above average.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:42 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
. I never tried to compare the games of Ryan Bruan to Castro.
you wrote a long paragraph on the last page about Braun, but i digress.
quote:
You are the one saying that Castro isn't the player the Cubs hoped for when they signed the deal and I am trying to figure out how he isn't the player the Cubs hoped he would be
Again, Im saying i think they had hoped he would be better than what he is right now. Is that MVP caliber? No, doesn't have to be. But he signed the deal, played like absolute crap last year, is hitting like he used too now, but still has defensive woes and some plate discipline problems.
A contract at the point in a players career is like a lottery ticket. The Cub's haven't cashed in quite as well as other teams in the same position. Say whatever you will. That's the truth
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:43 pm to piggidyphish
quote:
His defense isn't great, sure, but it's certainly being made way too big a deal of. Kid is good, his contract is team friendly, and while he may look aloof at times i certainly don't think profiles as a player who doesn't care. Can't imagine it's easy work to have a season like last and bounce back like this.
This is exactly what I have been saying this whole time. Last year, I would think at times he didn't care. Obviously some like LE can't get over that. Like his hatred for Soriano last year. I think he has gotten over that hump though as he is starting to mature.
Kid is a very good overall player and is, without any ounce of doubt, living up to the player the Cubs thought he would be when they gave him the extension. Let's see if he continues to progress and mature and see if it can lead to some wins in the future. If it does, I don't see how anyone could say he wasn't what the Cubs hoped for.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 2:46 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
. Obviously some like LE can't get over that. Like his hatred for Soriano last year.
So do just blindly love every Cubs player? Is there someone you don't like?
you've defended Soriano and Junior Lake so I think i may know my answer already
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