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re: Cardinals - Best Team in Baseball...............Period.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:29 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:29 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
You would be out of your fricking mind to think anyone else has been a more successful organization. The Yankees are first in pretty much every aspect.
Historically? Yes. Sure. But right now? I don't know.
There aren't a whole lot of ball clubs that can point to the sustained success the Cardinals have been having for the past 10 years or so. And they do it while spending the 11th most money in baseball (as of 2012 - it was much lower a couple years back - well into the teens). Just to give you a reference, they spent $112M less than the Yankees spent last year.
And they had a new manager. And they had a new pitching coach. And they lost one of if not the best hitter in the history of baseball (at the time, anyway). AND they were within one game of snagging another pennant despite all these changes and an injury to their ace pitcher, who fricking He-Manned his way on to the mound after shoulder surgery.
O, and the Yankees got decimated by Detroit in 4 games in the ALCS.
The fact that the Yankees have 16 more titles is attributed to the fact that the Yankees were insane back in the day. Between 1920 and 1960, the Yankees won 18 titles. Pretty much every other year, they won the World Series. So 18 of their 27 titles came before 1960.
Between 1960 and 1980, they won 4. They had a hell of a run in the mid to late 90s and into the 2000 season with 4 titles in 5 years during a time when they were far and away the best team in baseball. And they paid out the arse for it. In the past ten years, they've won one World Series and 2 pennants.
In the past 10 years, the Cardinals, despite having a much, much smaller payroll, won 2 Titles and 3 pennants.
So it comes down to, really, whether you consider the Yankees better run when their payroll is nearly double that of the team with the 11th highest payroll in baseball that is also consistently competing for Titles.
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 3:30 pm
2
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:30 pm to LoveThatMoney
if you have to write a novel to state your case, you're probably wrong.
I don't know about you, but in America, 27 is more than 11
I don't know about you, but in America, 27 is more than 11
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:34 pm to TH03
quote:
if you have to write a novel to state your case, you're probably wrong.
I don't know about you, but in America, 27 is more than 11
Also in America, people don't like to read.
ETA: All the same, this thread is very 'hey look at me!' Which I find obnoxious
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:38 pm to LoveThatMoney
part of your proof was the Yankees losing to Detroit last year so I quit reading. one year of losing in the playoffs to the AL champs doesn't discredit 27 championships. they won in 2009 for gods sake, it's not like they haven't won in 20 years
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:40 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
ETA: All the same, this thread is very 'hey look at me!' Which I find obnoxious
and if this was a braves thread, these trolls would have a field day
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:44 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
LoveThatMoney
Nice post
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:44 pm to mizzoukills
Can't disagree with Kills on this one! 
Thank god Taveras is okay.
Thank god Taveras is okay.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:45 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
So it comes down to, really, whether you consider the Yankees better run when their payroll is nearly double that of the team with the 11th highest payroll in baseball that is also consistently competing for Titles.
The end goal is winning the WS, no?
You don't win awards for "best run franchise, so as determined by our ability to compete with a not so modest top 10ish payroll."
Let's not act like the Cardinals are the Rays/A's here. They spend plenty of money.
The Yankees spend so much because THEY CAN AFFORD TO. It doesn't hurt their bottom line. It does help their championship total.
The fact that you want to swab out portions of history for a "last 10 years argument" is asinine.
We could take a swab of many ten-year periods in baseball history from Yanks and Cards and it'd go to the Yanks hands down.
The Yankees have not only won 16 more titles than the Cardinals, they've appeared in over twice as many World Series, thus they've won over twice as many pennants.
Why do we stop at the last 10 years?
Over the last 20 years the Yankees have won 5 titles, 7 pennants.
Over the same span the Cardinals have won the same 2 pennants and 3 titles you mentioned.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:48 pm to OBUDan
lets just throw out the last 18 years as well as every year prior to 1995. now the braves are the best team in baseball. EVER.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 3:49 pm to OBUDan
and before someone brings up that the cards have about a thousand more wins than the yanks, I'd like to point out they also have about 2000 more losses
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:04 pm to OBUDan
quote:
The fact that you want to swab out portions of history for a "last 10 years argument" is asinine.
No it isn't. If we're talking about the present, let's stay in the present. The contention was that the Cardinals are the best run team in baseball today. The past 10 years is a pretty good barometer of recent success. Much more so than, say, the past 20 years or the past 100 years.
quote:
We could take a swab of many ten-year periods in baseball history from Yanks and Cards and it'd go to the Yanks hands down.
No shite. Selective history is selective.
The point I made was exactly the point you're making. The Yankees, historically, have more championships and, if the number of championships in the history of your franchise is your lone criterion for "best run MLB franchise," then they are hands down the best run MLB franchise. That's not arguable.
I also made the point that if you are to look at recent successes, and championships are your sole barometer for "best run MLB franchise," the Cardinals are better run than the Yankees.
BUT, if you look at recent success while also analyzing other data, namely the fact that the Yankees have double the payroll of the Cardinals and a far higher payroll than any other team in baseball, the picture becomes even clearer that the Cardinals are far better run than the Yankees. When you add in the fact that the Cardinals had a massive shakeup leading into the 2012 season and still managed to come within 1 game of the World Series, I'd say that's pretty remarkable evidence that the Cardinals are one of, if not the best, run franchises in the MLB today.
I'm not "discounting" 27 World Series titles. I'm saying only 9 of those have come in the past 63 years. I'm saying the Yankees dominated baseball from 1995 to 2000. I'm saying the Yankees have not had the same success since then. I'm saying in the past 10 years, the Cardinals could be considered a better run franchise than the Yankees and, therefore, are a better run franchise today than the Yankees.
The only other team, in my opinion, that can state they are better run than the Cardinals with any veracity is the San Francisco Giants.
PS - to give you a little nugget because you appear so butt hurt about my conclusion, in the past 63 years, the Yankees have won 9 World Series Titles to the Cardinals 5. Congratulations. You win the argument.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:06 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
I'm saying the Yankees dominated baseball from 1995 to 2000. I'm saying the Yankees have not had the same success since then
did 2009 not happen?
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:11 pm to TH03
quote:
did 2009 not happen?
Jesus titty-fricking Christ. Obviously. That would be the Yankees ONE World Series Title in the past 10 years, which I have already pointed out.
I'd say 4 titles in 5 years is dominant (Yankees 1995 to 2000). I would not say the same thing for a team that's won 1 title since then and it's been 12 years. And I'm not saying the Cardinals have dominated baseball, either, so let me head that little rabbit trail off at the pass.
You fricking Yankee/Barves fans need to learn to comprehend argument. I mean, shite, it's in English. You want it in Latin?
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 4:18 pm
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:13 pm to OBUDan
I just want to say the Cards are clearly the 2nd best organization in baseball, and have outstanding history and present.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:14 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
You fricking Yankee fans need to learn to comprehend argument. I mean, shite, it's in English. You want it in Latin?
yea, huge yankees fan
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:16 pm to LoveThatMoney
Jesus Christ! Braves fans are retardedly butt hurt. I love it!
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:17 pm to mizzoukills
they are definitely the best franchise at doing more with less money....that cannot be argued
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:19 pm to redfieldk717
2013 payroll: St. Louis $116,702,085
higher than 19 other teams
higher than 19 other teams
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:20 pm to TH03
and how many are they lower than?
and did any other teams advance farther into the playoffs than them with a smaller payroll?
and did any other teams advance farther into the playoffs than them with a smaller payroll?
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 5/14/13 at 4:21 pm to redfieldk717
serious? that would be the other 10 teams...
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