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re: Can Penn State Sue the NCAA?
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:49 pm to WDE24
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:49 pm to WDE24
quote:
Had they not agreed to it, they could have appealed and could have sued, and would have had a pretty good case.
Not on jurisidictional grounds. That's a terrible argument. They had good due process grounds to appeal, but they waived the appeal. The jurisidictional argument is pretty terrible and had almost as much chance of succeeding as a Gary Crowton offense.
1
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:49 pm to WDE24
quote:
debatable
How so?
quote:
Thy accepted it, but they certainly could have brought a lawsuit had the NCAA handed out the same sanctions without PSU's consent and would have had a decent chance at winning.
LULZ...what are you basing this "decent chance of winning" on?
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:50 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:Yep.
had they not accepted the punishment the NCAA could have voted them out of the NCAA in Jan.
quote:Ok.
Emmert had the votes to do just that
quote:If true, I'm sure they did.
PSU knew this
What does this have to do with the conversation?
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:50 pm to WDE24
quote:
People sue organizations they join all of the time.
And they would lose 100% of the time because they are voluntarily in that organization and can leave anytime they want if they do not agree with the actions of said organization.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:51 pm to Baloo
quote:
Gary Crowton offense
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:52 pm to WDE24
quote:
it was punishing wrongdoing not covered by its rules.
Wrong.
They were punishing what they called lack of institutional control which is certainly covered in the NCAA rules. Boys getting raped in the showers on your campus and hiding it would, in my humble opinion, come across as lack of institutional control.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:53 pm to WDE24
quote:why would PSU sue over a contractual agreement they signed off on?
What does this have to do with the conversation?
NCAA maintained their end of the agreement,,
why waste the time and resources on a losing lawsuit where IF you sue and inevitably lose the NCAA could then revisit the expulsion issue
This post was edited on 7/23/12 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:56 pm to OWLFAN86
Of course they can sue. You can sue for damn near anything. Will they win is the question, and the answer is no.
Next question.
Next question.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:57 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:The imposition of a $60 million dollar fine for conduct that wasn't covered by the NCAA rules and the implementation of a a process not agreed to or set out by the NCAA prior to the bad conduct. They would have had a jurisdictional, due process, and likely a host of other challenges to paying such a penalty.
LULZ...what are you basing this "decent chance of winning" on?
For instance: Let's assume the NCAA fined Arkansas for the the poor ethical choices made by Bobby Petrino. Arkansas would have a legit shot at challenging such a penalty in both a NCAA appeal and, if unsuccessful there, in court.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 4:57 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:What contractual agreement?
why would PSU sue over a contractual agreement they signed off on?
NCAA maintained their end of the agreement,,
quote:I don't think they should (or can at this point). I never said otherwise.
why waste the time and resources on a losing lawsuit where IF you sue and inevitably lose the NCAA could then revisit the expulsion issue
This post was edited on 7/23/12 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:02 pm to WDE24
quote:
For instance: Let's assume the NCAA fined Arkansas for the the poor ethical choices made by Bobby Petrino. Arkansas would have a legit shot at challenging such a penalty in both a NCAA appeal and, if unsuccessful there, in court.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
Covering up an illegal act of child molestation is way beyond Petrino porking some secretary.
I just dont get how you don't think that this conduct does not fall under the lack of institutional controls in the NCAA bylaws. They could have tried to sue the NCAA all they wanted, but they would not win in this situation. Way to much evidence against them.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:04 pm to PurpleAndGold86
quote:It is the same principal and extension of NCAA power which was arguably not given to the NCAA by the member universities prior to this incident.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
Covering up an illegal act of child molestation is way beyond Petrino porking some secretary.
quote:Show me the by-law you are referring to. The NCAA has said this wasn't an infractions issue and didn't treat it as such.
I just dont get how you don't think that this conduct does not fall under the lack of institutional controls in the NCAA bylaws.
quote:Evidence of what?
They could have tried to sue the NCAA all they wanted, but they would not win in this situation. Way to much evidence against them.
This post was edited on 7/23/12 at 5:05 pm
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:06 pm to SammyTiger
The executive committee of the NCAA gave him the authority to act.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:07 pm to WDE24
1. You can sue an organization you are part of, if it doesn't follow the contract you agreed on. Not following any of its own rules is probably a breach of this agreement
2. I love the argument that schools can just leave if they want, and walk away from all the TV and championship games money.
3. The actual Child Molester himself, got due process. Why not PSU?
They agree because just as a whole they are trying to keep their heads down and get through this. Cause they screwed up.
2. I love the argument that schools can just leave if they want, and walk away from all the TV and championship games money.
3. The actual Child Molester himself, got due process. Why not PSU?
They agree because just as a whole they are trying to keep their heads down and get through this. Cause they screwed up.
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:09 pm to tigerpimpbot
quote:
The NCAA took unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing, bypassing a system in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.
quote:
"We cannot look to NCAA history to determine how to handle circumstances so disturbing, shocking and disappointing," Emmert said in the statement. "As the individuals charged with governing college sports, we have a responsibility to act. These events should serve as a call to every single school and athletics department to take an honest look at its campus environment and eradicate the 'sports are king' mindset that can so dramatically cloud the judgment of educators."
quote:
A former Committee on Infractions chairman and current Division I Appeals Committee member told ESPN.com's Andy Katz on Sunday the NCAA's penalizing of an institution and program for immoral and criminal behavior also breaks new ground.
The former chair, who has been involved with the NCAA for nearly three decades, said he couldn't use his name on the record because the case could come before him and the committee he still serves on in an appeals process.
"This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried," the former chair said. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct."
The chair said that the NCAA was dealing with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations.
"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and et cetera," the chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with."
The NCAA, the chair said, had never gotten involved in punishing schools for criminal behavior.
"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations," the former chair said. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work in the athletic department.
"This is an important precedent. And it should be taken with extreme care."
This post was edited on 7/23/12 at 5:11 pm
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:13 pm to Broseph Barksdale
quote:
Think for a minute of the absolutely horrible PR that would come out of sueing the NCAA after this.
Ding ding
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:15 pm to WDE24
Yes, because the NCAA should not concern themselves with morals or ethics off the field just morals and ethics on the field
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:17 pm to MontyFranklyn
What point are you trying to make? Can we stay on topic?
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:23 pm to WDE24
quote:
WDE24
Can Penn State Sue the NCAA?
Thanks for a link to a case where the NCAA was told it had the power to enforce its rules. Here it wasn't enforcing its rules, it was punishing wrongdoing not covered by its rules
Oh really?
"2.4 THE PRINCIPLE OF SPORTSMANSHIP AND ETHICAL CONDUCT [*]
For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of
higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these
athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility."
Posted on 7/23/12 at 5:29 pm to Duke
quote:
Even if they could sue (they agreed to this), they would be beyond stupid to try.
Prepare for paternos family to sue
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