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Long read on GE and their fall

Posted on 12/27/18 at 11:45 am
Posted by crazyLSUstudent
391 miles away from Tiger Stadium
Member since Mar 2012
5511 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 11:45 am
WSJ article detailing the missteps and mistakes

How the mighty have fallen. GE was worth 594 billion in August of 2000. Now on the brink the article details the mishaps since the infamous Jack Welch stepped down as CEO in 2001.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37034 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 12:53 pm to
Behind WSJ payroll and google trick won't work.

But... without having read it... GE is having the same two problems other companies and trouble have.

1) Their spirit of innovation went away when their innovative leader went away

2) They aren't really known for anything anymore. They do a bunch of different things decently well, but they aren't good enough at any one thing to really make a mark.
Posted by Civildawg
Member since May 2012
8549 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 12:57 pm to
I was an engineer in their power division until recently and even my low man on the totem pole status saw terrible low-mid management taking place. They were putting people in management positions that literally had zero management experience and had never worked in the field before. It was like hiring a guy right out of school to manage people.
Posted by readysetgeaux
Member since Jun 2012
203 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 12:59 pm to
There is a way to get around the paywall for all articles with no limits. WSJ considers links to articles from Facebook to be advertising, and allows full access. Next time you find a WSJ article you want to read, simply paste the following address BEFORE the address of the paywalled article in your URL bar:

https://facebook.com/l.php?u=

OR

use outline.com

LINK without Paywall
This post was edited on 12/27/18 at 1:02 pm
Posted by EveryoneGetsATrophy
Member since Nov 2017
2907 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:03 pm to
quote:

1) Their spirit of innovation went away when their innovative leader went away

2) They aren't really known for anything anymore. They do a bunch of different things decently well, but they aren't good enough at any one thing to really make a mark.


I work for another large electrical manufacturer and you just described my company too. Ive seen the steady decline in products for the last 5 years. Sucks as we were the leader in many areas of harsh and hazardous equipment.
Posted by crazyLSUstudent
391 miles away from Tiger Stadium
Member since Mar 2012
5511 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 2:02 pm to
LINKEDIn link

Going through this link works. Also issue with WSJ paywall is noted for future topics
This post was edited on 12/27/18 at 2:04 pm
Posted by crazyLSUstudent
391 miles away from Tiger Stadium
Member since Mar 2012
5511 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 2:05 pm to
Turbines?
Posted by Civildawg
Member since May 2012
8549 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 2:23 pm to
No, substation design. My last manager was laid off 3 months before they made him manager. The guy was an IT guy was laid off and then 3 months later he’s my manager and had no idea on my day to day activities. I knew then I needed to leave.
Posted by Bustedsack
Member since Dec 2017
4387 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

saw terrible low-mid management taking place.


Nail on the head.

I was a lead systems engineer for GE. Emphasis on the word, WAS. With what you stated along with GE always switching managers around every 18 months of so. It blows my mind how improperly managed GE really is.
Posted by crazyLSUstudent
391 miles away from Tiger Stadium
Member since Mar 2012
5511 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 3:21 pm to
How do you fix that?
Posted by Civildawg
Member since May 2012
8549 posts
Posted on 12/27/18 at 3:31 pm to
I was there 6 years and had 5 different managers during my time. It was ridiculous
Posted by tigerpawl
Can't get there from here.
Member since Dec 2003
22237 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 9:17 am to
Freakonomics interview: Jack Welch. Interesting. LINK
Posted by sleepytime
Member since Feb 2014
3573 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 8:08 pm to
I think that has a lot to do with their reliance on six sigma or whatever iteration of it they are using now.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4082 posts
Posted on 12/30/18 at 11:01 am to
quote:

I think that has a lot to do with their reliance on six sigma or whatever iteration of it they are using now.


I'd have to disagree with this. A misuse of Six Sigma can lead to problems. But at Motorola, GE and Textron (three that I'm familiar with), all had excellent Six Sigma initiatives. But all three had clueless leadership and management. Rot starts at the top. The overall purpose of Six Sigma is to eliminate waste and redundancy (Lean), reduce defects and improve quality (DMAIC) and create and design robust products and processes (DFSS). But when clueless management charges blindly into the distance and seeks to create the highest quality buggy whips, they're still going to fail... because no one buys buggy whips anymore.

Toyota doesn't call its system Six Sigma, but it shares many/most of the same elements. But Toyota management has a laser like focus on where the company is going, before they try to perfect the production processes. If Toyota put town clowns like Jeff Immelt or Lewis Campbell in charge for a week, that company would look like a bad episode of The Office in no time flat.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/30/18 at 3:23 pm to
I just got around to reading that, and it was a very interesting case study.

My take-aways from it, in case anyone cares:

#1. Historically, GE’s core competency was bringing harsh, engineering efficiencies to industrial and consumer corporations at a particular stage of maturity in the corporate life cycle; but they did not stay true to their past fierce discipline in only acquiring growing winners and ruthlessly getting rid of underperforming losers.

#2. Related to #1, to have 2/3 of its business revenue in 2018 be in power, O&G, and aviation, was not a good strategy for GE, and it’s unclear why GE was so bad at the 1/6 of its business in healthcare. A GE focused on the future would have been more focused on young, tech companies, and more able to enter into and compete for the same kinds of businesses that Amazon, Google, and Tesla were interested in.

#3. The ruthless 10% weed-out strategy of Jack Welch can be a very good and profitable strategy toward the long-maturity end of the corporate life cycle, but to practice it within GE headquarters itself was mistaken, and seems to have bred a sort of inflexible, non-strategic, non-growth oriented culture and non-imaginative brand of groupthink.

#4. The public CEO-succession competition that selected Immelt, highly praised at the time, was not a sign of a healthy business culture--the arse-kissing, sunshine-pumping optimist won.

#5. The use of a aligned bank, GE Capital, was crucial to GE’s competitive advantage over the past century. With the loss of that advantage, the clever accounting tricks pushed the company further and further on the edge. It was probably right to let GE Capital go, but the remaining GE leadership was totally ill-equipped to operate without using it as a crutch. They didn't have the discipline to pay more attention to what Wall Street was trying to tell them.

#6. The corporate culture that selected Flannery as the replacement for Immelt in 2017 picked an overly cautious auditor of outside opinions, rather than the swift executive-style decision-maker that was necessary to quickly right the ship.
Posted by CivilTiger83
Member since Dec 2017
2525 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 3:54 am to
I actually think their problems go back to Jack Welch.

The whole fire the bottom 10% of your workforce is an example of short term thinking that juices profits over a span of years, but over a decade or two will hollow out your organization.

Companies have to constantly reinvent themselves, and when you start treating employees like a cog, you lose your best asset. IBM is on the same path with the same stupid MBA types producing the same type of weak minded business practices that hollow out an organization.

Someone else mentioned Toyota... They do not follow Six Sigma from what I can see, they follow Demings 14 Points which actually make room for valuing employees.

The major companies who announce they are shifts to Six Sigma end up trailing their peers in the S&P 500 after making the change... Coincidence?
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4082 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 11:53 am to
quote:

Someone else mentioned Toyota... They do not follow Six Sigma from what I can see, they follow Demings 14 Points which actually make room for valuing employees.

The major companies who announce they are shifts to Six Sigma end up trailing their peers in the S&P 500 after making the change... Coincidence?


No, as I pointed out, Toyota doesn't call its system Six Sigma and it doesn't employ "belts" to drive the system. But the Toyota Production System is the basis for Lean Six Sigma.

That last statement is probably based on an old Fortune article (2005 or so?) and a Dilbert cartoon, which made that claim. The so called "analysis" came from Charles Holland of consulting firm Qualpro (which coincidentally sells a competing quality system known as MVT). Interestingly enough, Holland didn't mention what relative S&P rank the 58 companies he studied held prior to Six Sigma implementation, nor did he (AFAIK) provide any evidence that his company's MVT system provided better results. By being critical of Six Sigma, he would also have been criticizing Lean, which would be a criticism of the Toyota Production System. Knowing who did the analysis, I was, shall we say, a bit suspicious. He was light on data, in that he didn't provide time lines or mention how he selected his "sample".

What one has to be wary of is the reliability of claims and data, as well as any biases that may be present.

Coincidence? Possibly. It could also be correlation, while not being cause and effect. I don't know. When I read the article in Fortune a long time ago, it struck me more as a Ford guy trying to talk down Chevys so that he can sell more Fords - and not much more.

But to make a long post longer (sorry ), I don't think that Six Sigma, TPS or MVT could have saved GE. None of them are programs designed to fix the one thing that can't be fixed: stupid (management). But companies that have a clear vision and good management can use Six Sigma (or something else) to drive down defects and waste, and streamline the process... all while treating employees like humans (nothing about Six Sigma or TPS suggests otherwise). Seems to be working pretty well for Apple, Mercedes, Toyota and Bank of America.

Cheers. And a Happy New Year to all.
Posted by CivilTiger83
Member since Dec 2017
2525 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

But companies that have a clear vision and good management can use Six Sigma (or something else) to drive down defects and waste, and streamline the process... all while treating employees like humans (nothing about Six Sigma or TPS suggests otherwise). Seems to be working pretty well for Apple, Mercedes, Toyota and Bank of America. 


As a limited tool applied only to manufacturing or straightforward processes, it has value... I will grant that. The way it was applied at GE and many other firms and applied to creative endeavors has produced success stories like GE, Motorola, 3M and others.

And Toyotas production system is based on Deming which was pre Six Sigma (1960s). They take a systematic and statistical approach to improvement, but it's not Six Sigma.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4082 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

As a limited tool applied only to manufacturing or straightforward processes, it has value... I will grant that. The way it was applied at GE and many other firms and applied to creative endeavors has produced success stories like GE, Motorola, 3M and others.

And Toyotas production system is based on Deming which was pre Six Sigma (1960s). They take a systematic and statistical approach to improvement, but it's not Six Sigma.


Yes, it's a tool (or set of tools) that can be applied correctly, or it can be misapplied. The misapplication of capitalism doesn't make capitalism a bad economic system, right? And trying to use a screwdriver to pound in a nail doesn't make it a worthless tool. But to your point, the analog cellphones that Motorola produced were some of the highest quality cellphones on the market at the time. Unfortunately, the market had shifted to digital phones. That was the point that I made in my initial post when I mentioned buggy whips.

Yes, I'm well aware of the basis for the Toyota Production System, having studied W.E. Demming's work and my first Sensei worked with the Toyoda family. No one said that TPS was Six Sigma (Lean or otherwise). What I stated was that Lean Six Sigma has its basis in TPS (not the other way around). We periodically sent our Black Belts and some Green Belts to Kentucky to learn TPS. And TPS actually doesn't rely on heavy math or statistics as much as it does on rather simple and easy to use principles like visual management, Kanban, Kaizen, etc.

But in any event, TPS isn't a tool set that would guide entrenched, bad management in the right direction either. Only the hand of God, or maybe a brain transplant could accomplish that.
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