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re: Is the market a must?

Posted on 1/21/19 at 10:49 am to
Posted by tigerforever7
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2012
1047 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 10:49 am to
For me, it has proven to be a safe option to grow money over time. Compound interest over a time horizon of 30 years can be a wonderful thing. Also as the poster before said, liquidity and tax benefits. I am impressed with how you have made money in other ways. I think it would be beneficial to you as far as diversifying your assets as well as saving for retirement to put together a portfolio of stocks and index funds and "buy and hold". Only buy stocks and funds that you plan on holding for 20+ years. This doesn't mean that you wont make changes but have the intention of holding for 20+ years when you buy.
Posted by Cdawg
TigerFred's Living Room
Member since Sep 2003
59494 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 11:00 am to
quote:

I’ve always felt like investing in my own interests is a better path

My step father thinks the same way and has done well. However, it's a good thing my mother was the opposite and believe in the other.

I don't think you realize the high risk reward in your scenario. Especially in construction.
Posted by olgoi khorkhoi
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
14851 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 11:45 am to
quote:

Adding liquidity to your financial profile is going to be something you will eventually be thankful to have.



I agree I’ll need liquidity at some point, but right now feels like it should be a growth phase. Liquidity doesn’t seem like a factor until a few years before I stop.


quote:

You are certainly taking on more risk than you realize right now.


How do you figure this? I have low overhead and no personal or business debt. Have we come full circle to the point that not investing in fluctuating markets is risky?

I understand why an employee should have retirement accounts, especially where there is an employer matching a percent of contributuons. I fail to see this as a one-size-fits-all solution for someone like me. I keep large amounts of cash ready so that I can jump into things as they come along. My current business required $120k to get started. Had I had $100k in the market and had to sell to get the cash, I’m stuck hoping my $100k is still $100k at the moment I need it.

At the end of this year, I have a plan for an expansion that will take double my original start up amount. There’s no way I’m putting any of that money in the market this year while I’m trying to accumulate it. After that is done, I will accumulate more, but there will always likely be another plan or if there is no set plan, at least the desire to have a large enough amount set aside to be able to jump into something if I want to.

I’m trying to imagine a scenario where I’d want to just set money over to the side and not touch it until I’m 70+. I guess it would be if I had more cash on hand than any conceivable opportunity would require.
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
25455 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 11:52 am to
quote:

Have we come full circle to the point that not investing in fluctuating markets is risky?


Do construction and real estate not hold the same principle?

Why did you even start the thread? The advice seems to be pretty consistent yet you are just arguing with everyone.
Posted by olgoi khorkhoi
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
14851 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 11:58 am to
The advice seems like reading a pamphlet. I was curious if anyone could make a persuasive argument for the markets based on my specific situation.

And I am not arguing, I am asking clarifying questions and providing what I think are relevant details.


Edit: Upon re-reading, maybe I am arguing. I will give what’s been said here some thought.
This post was edited on 1/21/19 at 12:06 pm
Posted by barry
Location, Location, Location
Member since Aug 2006
50342 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

I’m trying to imagine a scenario where I’d want to just set money over to the side and not touch it until I’m 70+. I guess it would be if I had more cash on hand than any conceivable opportunity would require.



You are literally talking about retirement savings. I'm not sure what is hard to grasp.

Obviously if you are planning an expansion that is cash dependent then you don't want to put that money in the market as you have a liquidity event on the horizon.

I'm assuming you haven't gone through a recession as a business owner. Everything seems so easy when the economy is booming.

You have to think about everything as a risk based return. Theoretically almost everything that exceeds market returns has some sort of risk premium you are being compensated for because of the excess risk. Yes YOU can make more in your construction business, but you can also lose everything.

It's perfectly fine to not put any money in the broader stock market if you have that sort of risk tolerance and understand the repercussions. It seems you don't fully appreciate it, but at least you own your own home and vehicles.

Just don't think you have the same risk levels as someone who is market diversified.
Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35529 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 2:03 pm to
Sorry to go off traack on you. What type of commerical construction do you do with a 30 day window for completion?
Posted by High C
viewing the fall....
Member since Nov 2012
53782 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

Liquidity doesn’t seem like a factor until a few years before I stop.


If you plan to get into the market this late in the game, you probably shouldn’t bother. Much greater risk short term.
Posted by olgoi khorkhoi
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
14851 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 8:10 pm to
quote:

Sorry to go off traack on you. What type of commerical construction do you do with a 30 day window for completion?



It’s generally classified as retail construction, but a more accurate name would be retail remodeling. I dabble here and there in new construction and some demo, but my wheelhouse is remodeling because the overhead is so low and the margins are high.

What size projects do you take? And do you go nation wide?
Posted by ItzMe1972
Member since Dec 2013
9798 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 8:46 pm to
I do not have a large market position.

I flipped houses for a while and do well with cash flow from rental properties.

My real estate has done much better over time than the market.

Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35529 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 8:55 pm to
We’ve taken projects up to four floors(Department of Labor job). We’ve done projects for Facebook, Nvidia, Dept of Homeland Security, UAE and Morocco embassies among others. We can do projects nationwide. The project just has to make sense for us to travel. We use local labor and provide insite management for those. We do not compromise on our standards or quality.

Turned down a job for The Containet Store. I didn’t like their requirements. We’re looking at projects for AT&T right now.

We should talk. It might make sense to work together and I can give you consistency in standards across all projects.

Again, sorry to derail. We can take it offline if you want.

ETA: the poster Jose Vargas supplies guys in your field I think. He’s someone we could also converse with.
This post was edited on 1/21/19 at 8:57 pm
Posted by olgoi khorkhoi
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
14851 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 9:55 pm to
quote:

We should talk. It might make sense to work together


I’m not quite there yet. I do a lot of remodels for one particular client that also does a lot of new construction. They have started throwing me new construction to look at but, based on our conversations, their construction dept is a clown show. Sometimes that can work out well if you have your stuff together and get in with the right person. I’ll see if someone has all their data installs on lockdown.

Are you guys based in VA?
Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35529 posts
Posted on 1/21/19 at 10:01 pm to
NOVA. We’re in data center alley. One of our data centers wants us to do west coast work for them.
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 1/23/19 at 7:35 pm to
First off, bear in mind that most of your company's growth has happened during a time with very low interest rates to stimulate the economy. A construction business is very well placed to take advantage of that. You got into this at just the right time, and in Nashville to boot.

But the pendulum swings both ways, and one fine day your sales pipeline will dry up. This is where investing in public securities can help.

Notice I didn't say "the market", because there isn't just one. You can invest in bonds of varying maturities, for example. Or Europe. Or Asia. Government bonds of whatever government you like. Or whatever. Investing in public markets gives you the ability to set aside wealth and weather a storm if your order book suddenly dries up.
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