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Started By
Message
re: Interesting battle unfolding between CFTC and SEC. CFTC maintains that ETH is Commodity.
Posted on 3/29/23 at 10:59 pm to UltimaParadox
Posted on 3/29/23 at 10:59 pm to UltimaParadox
quote:
clearly states on page 39
Lol c’mon on now. BinanceUS is not listed as a defendant
quote:
they used binance US as a lab to push large customers onto binance.com.
This makes no sense. Daddy binance existed long before binance.US. Please paste what you’re referring to
This post was edited on 3/29/23 at 11:00 pm
2
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:02 pm to Huge Richard
I copied and pasted it directly from the CFTC lawsuit, which I already posted in the thread.
CFTC lawsuit for you to read
CFTC lawsuit for you to read
Posted on 3/29/23 at 11:07 pm to Huge Richard
Also if you would like
Another golden nugget
Reuters article accusing Binance and binance US being both run by CZ
I'm sure everything is fine
quote:
The global Binance exchange is not licensed to operate in the United States but the transfers to Merit Peak revealed by Reuters suggest that Binance controlled the finances of Binance.US, despite saying publicly that the American entity is "fully independent" and operates as its "US partner."
Another golden nugget
quote:
The day before Reuters' article, Binance's chief strategy officer, Patrick Hillmann, told the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg that Binance expected to pay penalties to resolve U.S. investigations into the company. Hillmann said Binance had been built by software engineers unfamiliar with laws and rules on bribery and corruption, money laundering and economic sanctions, but earlier "gaps" in its regulatory compliance had since been closed.
Reuters article accusing Binance and binance US being both run by CZ
I'm sure everything is fine
This post was edited on 3/29/23 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 3/30/23 at 6:02 am to UltimaParadox
quote:
You can keep throwing out your opinion, but the us government disagrees. So it will be up to the courts to decide. I'm not giving you my opinion, in giving the case brought forward by the CFTC.
Check the thread title baw. The US government disagrees with itself.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 6:03 am
Posted on 3/30/23 at 7:23 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
What US laws?
The US already has laws on securities, commodities, etc.
quote:
The US has abdicated doing remotely ANYTHING structured with regards to crypto and THAT is the problem.
Crypto will fall into the traditional classifications. I know this will rub you the wrong way, because you think crypto is different, but...it's not.
quote:
The SEC and CFTC cant even agree on what to do.
Because you are seeing 2 government agencies want their power. That's all.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 7:26 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
Crypto exchanges aren’t like every other financial institution.
But they are.
quote:
They operate vastly different by the nature of the technology.
But, fundamentally, they are no different.
Zelle and checks act as "vastly different by the nature of technology" but they're regulated the same.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 7:30 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
The US government disagrees with itself.
Agency dick measuring.
A court, be it federal appeals or possibly the USSC, will make the call. Then crypto will be either a commodity or a security, and fall under the applicable regulations.
Why do you think new regulations and laws are needed?
I'm going to wager almost all crypto will be labeled a security, due to the nature of how the market has used them since the big bull market of 2017. 99.9% of anyone buying any sort of crypto did it for no reason other than for investment purposes, which implies security.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 7:31 am
Posted on 3/30/23 at 7:32 am to SlowFlowPro
You shouldn’t assume as much. I think it should be regulated because the space needs a well regulated exchange. The problem, as I have said, is they have yet to form agreement on the classification of assets which in turn pushes these exchanges and users over seas.
Secondly, crypto is different. It is multi dimensional in the financial world.
Can serve multiple functions at the same time. No other financial products offer that.
In any case, we might finally get some clarity at the expense of these current exchanges so the blue bloods and swoop in to capitalize on the market.
The space is growing and the US can be a leader or not. I don’t really care. I’ll make money regardless.
It’s global and they can’t stop me.
Secondly, crypto is different. It is multi dimensional in the financial world.
Can serve multiple functions at the same time. No other financial products offer that.
In any case, we might finally get some clarity at the expense of these current exchanges so the blue bloods and swoop in to capitalize on the market.
The space is growing and the US can be a leader or not. I don’t really care. I’ll make money regardless.
It’s global and they can’t stop me.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 7:33 am
Posted on 3/30/23 at 7:58 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
The problem, as I have said, is they have yet to form agreement on the classification of assets
That's what courts are for. This takes time. Do you think this discussion only has happened with crypto?
quote:
Secondly, crypto is different. It is multi dimensional in the financial world.
So a stock isn't "multi dimensional"?
quote:
Can serve multiple functions at the same time.
In 0.01% of cases. In 99.99% of cases, they're used as investments.
quote:
US can be a leader or not.
Are you talking from the government or private actors?
We will be a leader via government, but it takes time. I imagine it will be taking time everywhere else of note. Sure some small country with a low-moderate GDP may try to be a front-runner but that will have no real impact. US, EU, Japan, China, AUS, etc. are the trendsetters.
quote:
and they can’t stop me.
In ways that have very little use or value? Probably.
In the way that almost every actor in the field uses crypto? Yes. Legally, at least. The US can clamp down on basically every way available to offramp the value of crypto into legal tender. You can have crypto with an alleged paper/book value, but you won't be able to transfer that, legally, into actual value.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 8:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
In the way that almost every actor in the field uses crypto? Yes. Legally, at least. The US can clamp down on basically every way available to offramp the value of crypto into legal tender. You can have crypto with an alleged paper/book value, but you won't be able to transfer that, legally, into actual value.
No they can’t.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 9:35 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
No they can’t.
If they make it illegal to transfer crypto to normal banking or into USD, and illegal for any party along the chain to do so (which they effectively can with our money laundering and banking laws), then explain how.
You couldn't buy anything directly
You couldn't convert it to USD directly (like in a money exchange or ATM).
You couldn't get it legally into an institution (bank, investment account, etc.).
It would be illegal to purchase a good outside of the US and then sell that good in the US.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 11:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You couldn't get it legally into an institution (bank, investment account, etc.).
Who would want to do this? The future of crypto is not with centralized exchanges.
Posted on 3/30/23 at 11:40 am to Huge Richard
I'm not going to wade into the discussion of "does the government have the mechanisms to make an activity illegal" because the answer seems obvious. On paper, they can make every single potential activity an individual can undertake illegal.
However, it is then worth noting some things that are illegal on paper are not practical to enforce or simply just ineffective at deterring activity from occurring. One might argue attempting to make illegal someone sending BTC peer to peer in exchange for some good or service or even cash is one such example.
I think the exchange of ideas in this thread is sort of conflating these two strands of thought of what could potentially be made illegal through existing legal mechanisms and what laws would be effective, but maybe not. I'm not all that interested in this discussion at the moment, but I did want to chime in here:
I'm not sure if this will be the truth, but I personally think it should be the truth. Decentralized exchanges like Bisq for Bitcoin which allow for peer to peer transfers of cash and BTC and have open source code and are accessible through download of a software suite seem to be much more aligned with the ethos of the space.
However, it is then worth noting some things that are illegal on paper are not practical to enforce or simply just ineffective at deterring activity from occurring. One might argue attempting to make illegal someone sending BTC peer to peer in exchange for some good or service or even cash is one such example.
I think the exchange of ideas in this thread is sort of conflating these two strands of thought of what could potentially be made illegal through existing legal mechanisms and what laws would be effective, but maybe not. I'm not all that interested in this discussion at the moment, but I did want to chime in here:
quote:
The future of crypto is not with centralized exchanges.
I'm not sure if this will be the truth, but I personally think it should be the truth. Decentralized exchanges like Bisq for Bitcoin which allow for peer to peer transfers of cash and BTC and have open source code and are accessible through download of a software suite seem to be much more aligned with the ethos of the space.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 11:44 am
Posted on 3/30/23 at 3:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
Ifff my aunt had a dick she’d be my uncle.
Why is it you anti crypto people jump to the most authoritarian views to downplay crypto?
Very telling.
Again, please go ahead and make a greater case to dump the US dollar. You couldn’t be more clear.
Why is it you anti crypto people jump to the most authoritarian views to downplay crypto?
Very telling.
Again, please go ahead and make a greater case to dump the US dollar. You couldn’t be more clear.
This post was edited on 3/30/23 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 3/30/23 at 6:52 pm to Ross
quote:
what could potentially be made illegal through existing legal mechanisms
Are y’all referring to illegal activities that involve certain currencies or the currency itself?
There is no law, statute, etc. that mandates the use of any currency. you are also free to barter.
quote:
I'm not sure if this will be the truth, but I personally think it should be the truth
Give it time. Who knows what innovations will come next.
Think about this. Some dude a decade and a half ago created magic internet money and it’s already legal tender in 2 countries. Pretty remarkable when you think about it.
Posted on 3/31/23 at 9:44 pm to JayDeerTay84
quote:
Why is it you anti crypto people
I'm not anti crypto
quote:
jump to the most authoritarian views to downplay crypto?
I was posting about the hypothetical of fedgov wanting to make crypto worthless in the US. That requires authoritarianism.
quote:
Very telling.
I can't wait to hear your interpretation.
Posted on 3/31/23 at 11:57 pm to tenderfoot tigah
quote:
The globalists direly want to shut crypto down.
I’ve been telling crypto pumpers for 15 years if the Global Banking Cabal believes crypto currencies are a threat to their monopolistic control they will be dealt with….lol
Posted on 4/1/23 at 6:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I was posting about the hypothetical of fedgov wanting to make crypto worthless in the US. That requires authoritarianism.
Is the government going full authoritarian a "got ya?"
Posted on 4/1/23 at 6:52 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
I’ve been telling crypto pumpers for 15 years
Posted on 4/1/23 at 9:59 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
I’ve been telling crypto pumpers for 15 years
You're right.....it's only been 13 years.
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