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re: For all those poorly misguided do-it-yourselfers
Posted on 2/13/09 at 5:21 pm to Colonel Hapablap
Posted on 2/13/09 at 5:21 pm to Colonel Hapablap
Quit posting shite from "blogs" Col, we all know those are only written by idiots.
1
Posted on 2/13/09 at 5:23 pm to kfizzle85
Yeah, I ought to email Ritholz and ask for his credentials.
Posted on 2/13/09 at 8:52 pm to Colonel Hapablap
True story-
When I was a first semester freshman at LSU and trying to figure out what to be when i grew up I went to career day.
I say Merril Lynch and thought being a stock broker might be interesting. So I went over and talked to the guy about the path to this career
(I was expecting to hear about majoring in finance or accounting and internships on Wall Street). The BR branch manager told me if I am interested in being a stock broker the best thing I can do is go work for the Southwestern Company(the book people) over the summer so I can learn how to cold call and sell.
When I was a first semester freshman at LSU and trying to figure out what to be when i grew up I went to career day.
I say Merril Lynch and thought being a stock broker might be interesting. So I went over and talked to the guy about the path to this career
(I was expecting to hear about majoring in finance or accounting and internships on Wall Street). The BR branch manager told me if I am interested in being a stock broker the best thing I can do is go work for the Southwestern Company(the book people) over the summer so I can learn how to cold call and sell.
Posted on 2/13/09 at 9:56 pm to wampawampa
quote:
First it is always a good time to buy...
wow...i bet you think housing prices/values will always go up too.
Posted on 2/13/09 at 9:57 pm to LSU0358
quote:
wow...i bet you think housing prices/values will always go up too.
They are not making any more land.
Posted on 2/13/09 at 10:03 pm to Cash
from what I read of this thread, the 2 compadres sound like a couple of friends of mine that got involved in a multi-level marketing gig...
Posted on 2/13/09 at 10:20 pm to ForeLSU
I'm not saying I disagree with everything they say, but they come off as saying ALL professionals can do better than ANY DIY's. I have to call BS on this.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 1:43 am to Cash
quote:
I say Merril Lynch and thought being a stock broker might be interesting. So I went over and talked to the guy about the path to this career
Internship retail side Morgan Stanley back in the late 90's, all we did is basically input a client's portfolio into the system and the computer would tell us which positions they should sell(overweight in a sector), and which positions we should "suggest" for them to buy to "diversify"...think that theory is down the tubes now. Oh and send B-Day cards.(like we gave a shite at all about them)
So I wouldn't trust a "Professional Financial planner". The only guy I'd ever let manage my money would have to be a CFA. Otherwise I'll trust my Finance degree over some used car salesman looking to move up the ladder.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 7:33 am to LSU0358
quote:
I'm not saying I disagree with everything they say, but they come off as saying ALL professionals can do better than ANY DIY's. I have to call BS on this.
the key word is "disintermediation", a popular term during the dot.com boom. Markets used to rely heavily on intermediaries because knowledge and information flow was snail-like. In many markets, intermediaries thrived mainly because they owned the information and controlled the flow in order to maintain their strong positions...thus customers relied heavily on them. Today information flows freely and time delays have collapsed. The old intermediaries are struggling to defend their role, some will probably re-define, most won't.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 8:50 am to ForeLSU
yup, my same point in the real estate thread
Posted on 2/14/09 at 9:50 am to ForeLSU
quote:
the key word is "disintermediation", a popular term during the dot.com boom. Markets used to rely heavily on intermediaries because knowledge and information flow was snail-like. In many markets, intermediaries thrived mainly because they owned the information and controlled the flow in order to maintain their strong positions...thus customers relied heavily on them. Today information flows freely and time delays have collapsed. The old intermediaries are struggling to defend their role, some will probably re-define, most won't.
This sums up the entire argument...the pro's used to have information days to weeks ahead of the average joe. Now that is down to hours or a day or two.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 10:03 am to LSU0358
I suspect that, quite often, regular people have access at the very same time as everyone. Hell, on tickerforum, there's even a board for people to post rumors that they're hearing.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 10:28 am to Colonel Hapablap
next week on one of my veg days i'm goin to ask the board what its opinion of making insider trading illegal
this thread just reminded me
this thread just reminded me
Posted on 2/14/09 at 1:34 pm to amsterdam
quote:
Again, you guys always assume the advisor goes all equities or something. No diversification or safegaurds. Especially for the old. Most people with nest eggs are wealthy and want to remain so. That why they work with professionals. For all you know that is how they were invested. No one would know but Wampa. They gladly pay for the advice and the services. If there was no value to it they could come to tigerdroppings and do it for free. I love how you all assume we are crooks. Almost all my clients are very happy(even JC couldnt please everyone)despite the market and on pace to reach their individual goals. Like I have said, do not think you have me pegged b/c of my views on mutual funds. I have SEEN what active management does vs. Indexes. So go link all the articles you want, but its not going to change my opinion.
Who do you think your audience is on this board? You never even attempted to recognize the continuing points in that comparing a singular 100% equity index to diversified actively managed funds was an invalid comparison and pointless, whether that was the fund Col brought forth or not. Your pal can point to studies which reportedly define average investor returns, but how would you know if anyone on this board closely approximates this referenced average investor? I'll take my BBA and scholarship paid MBA plus 20+ years in the financial sector and investing experience over what some supposed advisor on a message board has to say, especially one that is a subset of an athletics board. With that said, it is evident that many posters on this board are very intelligent and have diverse backgrounds.
I still haven't managed to fall off the turnip truck, primarily by avoiding "professionals" who were called brokers until recently becoming anointed "financial advisors" for marketing purposes. Apparently it's easier to sell product to the masses when one is not a labeled a sales person.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 1:55 pm to wampawampa
quote:
When should I get back in the market you ask??? Yesterday. If you use mutual funds with a clearly defined purpose as per prospectus (not indexes) you could be accumulating extra shares in the form of dividend reinvestment and year end capital gain distributions, especially while the shares are cheap because the market is down. That way when the market returns you are far far far ahead of the game. When I read how tirebiter can’t understand how a mutual has a positive return while its price is down, I cringe like nails on a chalkboard. Owning mutual funds is about accumulating shares, not absolute price. If you owned say 100 shares at $10 you have a $1000 account. Now lets say you reinvest dividends and capital gains for 10 yrs and have accumulated 50 extra shares (not unreasonable with a quality dividend paying mutual fund) over that time frame and now have a total of 150 shares. Now let’s say the market value of said fund is down 30%, to $7/share- your account is now worth $1050 in a down market. Your account is now worth more in a seriously down market. Did that just happen? Now instead imagined you listened to the wizened COL and bought some great index fund that also went down 30%. By the time that index goes back to even the other mutual funds will be vastly ahead because of dividends and cap gains, two things most indexed lack severely. What scares me most about the DIY crowd is most of them don’t even understand the most basic principle of the investment vehicle they own. If you don’t understand the simple things that you certainly don’t understand the complex things like taxation, or even tactical allocations or portfolio strategy.
Einstein, please point out where I wrote the above?
Are you really stupid enough to believe equity index funds and ETF's don't pay dividends or is that what your boss instructs you to say to unwary investors?
VTV = 4.37%, VPU = 4.15%, VBR = 4%, VTI = 2.9% to name a few of many. You guys are totally off base in most of your assertions.
Your example of dollar cost averaging may work for some periods, but some investors simply won't maintain equity allocations in the face of severe losses, indicating the investor did a poor job of establishing risk tolerance at the outset. You also conveniently disregard the possibility that equity markets can remain depressed for long periods of time and if an investor had bought proportionally more of their NW in equities at higher valuations and had to sell during a severe downturn then they would indeed be selling securities with a higher average cost and experience real losses.
You two are comical.
This post was edited on 2/14/09 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 2/14/09 at 2:16 pm to wampawampa
quote:
By missing the 10 best days in the last 10 yrs in the market you less than half your return. By missing the 20 best days in the last 10 yrs you actually compound you money in a negative direction!! Do any of you think your crystal ball is soooo correct to guess the 10 or 20 best days out of the 2500 plus days the market is open for trading during a 10 yr period.
Do you have any data on what happens to long term returns if we were to miss the 20 worst days in the market over a 10 yr period?
Posted on 2/14/09 at 3:12 pm to amsterdam
quote:
Shizzle he just wanted to get your attention.
OK, good. I try to stay away from getting personal with someone on a board. It just doesn't strike me as being effective, not to mention being bad manners. And I did think a couple were a bit harsh.
quote:
The guy is crazy smart, and knows his stuff...even if all the info does come from the biased stockbroker world
Perhaps, but on this board there's a wide mix. Some know more than others. There's at least a couple who work in the industry or once did. Not everyone relies on Mad Money for his opinions, anyway.
I think there's a CFA floating around out there, and I passed the first two exams before deciding I didn't want to do that for a living. But some of my work was distributed by stockbrokers as research back in the day, I like to think I can still hang.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 3:27 pm to Cash
quote:
The BR branch manager told me if I am interested in being a stock broker the best thing I can do is go work for the Southwestern Company(the book people) over the summer so I can learn how to cold call and sell.
That was always my impression as well. I do respect the ability of brokers to present information to clients and bring in the business, but when looking at specific investment choices they are nearly always presenting someone else's analysis and recommendation. No disrespect intended to anyone, but in most cases that's probably a good thing.
A good broker or financial planner doesn't have time to deeply analyze the merits of a particular stock or fund, he/she has to rely on others to do that while focusing on the customer. And analysts don't have time to find customers. It's a good match but one shouldn't try to do the other's job.
Most of the popular financial mags are competitors for brokers' business - the "analysis" they present is generally very superficial. But they do drive sales, and probably don't have to be licensed. I'm guessing they drive licensed brokers bananas.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 3:32 pm to Cash
quote:
They are not making any more land.
Actually, there are exceptions to this. Dubai's recent developments, for example.
Land should probably go up over the long run, yes. The very long run. Just ask people who eagerly bought property along Burbank back in 1980. Until very recently that was a highway through nowhere.
Posted on 2/14/09 at 3:37 pm to LSU0358
quote:
they come off as saying ALL professionals can do better than ANY DIY's. I have to call BS on this.
Sorta. The job of figuring out how to allocate investments to suit one's long term needs is pretty easy to do but a lot of people botch it and pay attention to various schemes and touts. A lot of "market news" shows and financial mags/sites just drive traffic but are not particularly insightful. It is helpful to have someone keep you grounded sometimes. An athletic coach's job is similar in a lot of ways.
But not all DIY's are idiots. The really smart ones give very careful consideration to these matters and agree with me on all counts.
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