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FIL gift tax question

Posted on 5/2/21 at 9:44 am
Posted by dallastiger55
Jennings, LA
Member since Jan 2010
27710 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 9:44 am
Hi guys

My father in law bought a new house 20 years ago and kept his old house to lease out. He always said when he decides to sell it he will give the money to the 3 daughters(1 being my wife)

He sold it this week for 318k and he has a call later today with the daughters to discuss the distribution.

So for easy math let’s say he cuts a check to us for 100k. We’ve never received money like this before so how does that work?

Are their tax implications? I assume Wells Fargo doesn’t just let move 100k to my savings?

TIA
Posted by barbapapa
Member since Mar 2018
3200 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 10:17 am to
I believe gifts are limited to 10k per year
Posted by POCKET
Member since Nov 2011
2607 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 10:25 am to
Pretty sure he would be able to gift each daughter $15k per year. Since you are married, I believe he could gift your wife $15k and you $15k for a total of $30k.

He could consider spreading the $100k gift over a couple of years to avoid paying gift taxes
Posted by dallastiger55
Jennings, LA
Member since Jan 2010
27710 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 10:33 am to
Oh that makes sense. Good to know
Posted by TorchtheFlyingTiger
1st coast
Member since Jan 2008
2132 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 11:01 am to
I have zero tax training so do your own research.

I think he can go over the annual gift exclusion without triggering taxes it just counts against his lifetime estate exemption $11.7m per individual $23.4m per couple. The idea that gifts get hit with a big tax is based on old tax law.

There's paperwork that's supposed to be submitted to IRS to report it but no extra taxes. This article explains WSJ
This post was edited on 5/2/21 at 4:25 pm
Posted by Twenty 49
Shreveport
Member since Jun 2014
18768 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 11:11 am to
I'm not a tax person, but I have Google.

FIL may want to hold on to some of the proceeds to pay capital gains tax on the sale of the rental property.

If FIL co-owned the house with a spouse, each of them can gift $15K (total of $30k) to each daughter per year and stay under the annual gift tax limit.

If he exceeds the limit, he has to file a gift tax form but probably won't actually owe any gift tax.

From nerdwallet:

quote:

On top of the $15,000 annual exclusion, you get an $11.58 million lifetime exclusion (in 2021, that rises to $11.7 million). And because it’s per person, married couples can exclude double that in lifetime gifts. That comes in handy when you’re giving away more than $15,000.

For example, if you give your brother $50,000 this year, you’ll use up your $15,000 annual exclusion. The bad news is that you’ll need to file a gift tax return, but the good news is that you probably won’t pay a gift tax. Why? Because the extra $35,000 ($50,000 - $15,000) simply counts against your $11.58 million lifetime exclusion. Next year, if you give your brother another $50,000, the same thing happens: you use up your $15,000 annual exclusion and whittle away another $35,000 of your lifetime exclusion.


LINK
Posted by dallastiger55
Jennings, LA
Member since Jan 2010
27710 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 11:17 am to
Thx guys.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20447 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 11:35 am to
For $318,000 he needs a consult a CPA. One consultation for $300 would be money well spent here.

He has multiple options, but as said each person can gift each person the yearly gift amount. So a husband and wife can gift their daughter and son in law 4x that amount. There’s som other options also, but easiest way would be to do it over 2-3 years.
Posted by barbapapa
Member since Mar 2018
3200 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 12:26 pm to
apologies for the bad advice lol
Posted by TorchtheFlyingTiger
1st coast
Member since Jan 2008
2132 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

FIL may want to hold on to some of the proceeds to pay capital gains tax on the sale of the rental property.


Came back to add this. Good catch not to forget capital gains. Not sure how that works with depreciation on rental.

Might have been better off holding property and passing along as inheritance with stepped up basis to avoid capital gains but what's done is done and he gets to see kids enjoy the money this way and not worry about losing rental later due to medical bills etc...

If kids don't need the $ now it may be possible to do a 1031 exchange if he is interested in remaining a landlord. 45 days to find a like kind property and close within 180 to defer capital gains.
Posted by TorchtheFlyingTiger
1st coast
Member since Jan 2008
2132 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 1:47 pm to
Yikes, just saw recapture of depreciation is at regular income tax rates. FIL may be in for a hefty tax bill especially if he already has a decent income. (Likely if he is just gifting $300k all at once)
Posted by thelawnwranglers
Member since Sep 2007
38782 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

Pretty sure he would be able to gift each daughter $15k per year. Since you are married, I believe he could gift your wife $15k and you $15k for a total of $30k.


If dad is married wife can do $15k to you and wife total $60k or 4 times whatever gift amount is
Posted by dallastiger55
Jennings, LA
Member since Jan 2010
27710 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 4:21 pm to
Interesting. It says you can claim all 100k but you have to fill out a form with the IRS and probably don’t have to pay taxes

Probably/IRS. Hmmm
Posted by TorchtheFlyingTiger
1st coast
Member since Jan 2008
2132 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 4:28 pm to
I believe FIL is the one who has to report to IRS. Gift taxes are obligation of the giver (not that there should be any in this case).

FIL is still going to get hit with capital gains so dont expect the full $100k.
Posted by BeaumontBengal
Member since Feb 2005
2334 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 4:36 pm to
Could the OP have his FIL and MIL (if there is one) give the daughter and the OP each 15k a year with no gift tax problems. So 15k from FIL and MIL to daughter is 30k and 15k from FIL and MIL to OP is 30k. 60k total transferred in one year with no gift tax issues. That is how it works in 529 plans. 15k from each parent to the child for 30k max in a year with no gift tax implications.
Posted by dallastiger55
Jennings, LA
Member since Jan 2010
27710 posts
Posted on 5/2/21 at 4:47 pm to
I’ll give you an update. The father was divorced and the house was in his name only before he met his now wife. I do have a mother-in-law but she is a step mother-in-law

They each owned their own homes when they met and kept them

Also, my wife just got off the phone with her dad. Expects to have the money within a couple weeks and said he wants to just write us a check for 100 K and us not have to pay any taxes and he will cover everything on that end.

I’m gonna call my Fidelity guy tomorrow
This post was edited on 5/2/21 at 4:48 pm
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37093 posts
Posted on 5/3/21 at 7:39 am to
Your wife is going to get 100K and that's it. No tax implications for her.

Your FIL has tax implications on the sale, and has reporting (but likely not tax due) on the gift.
Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14445 posts
Posted on 5/3/21 at 10:00 am to
quote:

FIL gift tax question



Rules seemed to be about as clear as mud. Spoke to 4-5 people in the mortgage and/or tax industry. Read 5-6 articles on it. Still unsure what tax implications are going to be if any.

This post was edited on 5/3/21 at 10:01 am
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37093 posts
Posted on 5/3/21 at 10:14 am to
quote:

Rules seemed to be about as clear as mud. Spoke to 4-5 people in the mortgage and/or tax industry. Read 5-6 articles on it. Still unsure what tax implications are going to be if any


FIL will have capital gain and depreciation recapture on the sale. If FIL has any suspended losses from that rental, they will be released in the same tax year as the sale.

Second issue

FIL will likely have to file a gift tax return and will use some of his lifetime exemption.

Gift recipient (OP's wife) has no issues on the receipt of the gift.
Posted by Lazy But Talented
Member since Aug 2011
14445 posts
Posted on 5/3/21 at 11:12 am to
Apparently there are exceptions if the gifted amount is going directly towards a down payment.

ETA: I realize this is for a different scenario than the OP suggested.
This post was edited on 5/3/21 at 11:13 am
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