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re: BofA moves derivatives from Merrill to an insured subsidiary - a symptom?

Posted on 10/20/11 at 12:08 pm to
Posted by Tiger JJ
Member since Aug 2010
545 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

Dude I'm not questioning your theory, it was a grammatical comment.


THEORY is such a strong word...
Posted by Tiger JJ
Member since Aug 2010
545 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

The last I checked $3.9B in the FDIC fund is inadequate to cover $6.5T in insured deposits no matter how it is spun. BAC has > $1T in deposits per the article. The FDIC fund currently is at .06% reserve ratio level when historically it has been 1.35%, no matter how you view it is a very weak form of insurance given the fact that even reputable banks are tired of paying for the sins of crooks/bad mgt at TBTF institutions. Last I saw the FDIC had a $100B line with the Treasury. Say BAC fails and member institutions can't/won't pay grossly inflated assessments or premiums, the the T line is eaten through, then the taxpayers are the last line of defense. Is BAC ever going to be weaned from the teats of FDIC member institutions and taxpayers?


This is what I always say, but he and other commentators seem reluctant to concede the point. At the high point of the crisis, the treasury line to the FDIC was upped to $500 Billion.

I see it as analogous to all the people that denied for years that Fannie/Freddie had a government backstop.
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 12:33 pm to
I mean realistically the FDIC is irrelevant to money center banks like BAC, we all know that.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134848 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

and member institutions can't/won't pay
Then they lose their deposit insurance. Duh!!!!
Posted by Blakely Bimbo
Member since Dec 2010
1183 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

My guess is the attempt to transfer the derivatives to the bank has nothing to do with risk but with income taxes. The bank probably has some loss carry forwards while Merrill has taxable income generated from the derivatives position.


From the Bloomberg article linked in OP. The Counterparties are requesting the move.

quote:

The Federal Reserve and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. disagree over the transfers, which are being requested by counterparties,


There has been a lot of speculation about this subject, but the fact is we don't really know the content of the contracts. According to reports, the FDIC and FED don't seem to be seeing eye to eye.
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10959 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 4:27 pm to
quote:

This is what I always say, but he and other commentators seem reluctant to concede the point. At the high point of the crisis, the treasury line to the FDIC was upped to $500 Billion.

I see it as analogous to all the people that denied for years that Fannie/Freddie had a government backstop.


Precisely, but someone doesn't want to man up and admit that the taxpayers are ultimately f'd by the TBTF banks when one goes under. I fail to see why someone keeps hiding behind the veil on this when it is hiding in plain sight. It doesn't matter if we are talking about depositors/savers taking it up the wazoo over a protracted time period due to the Fed/ZIRP like a thousand paper cuts or directly bailing out the banks. This psuedo-earnout shite could take forever, ZIRP needs to end. I can only imagine how much P&C insurance costs are going to increase over the next few years if ZIRP doesn't change.
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 4:36 pm to
Another bberg article stated that most of legacy BAC deriv holdings were already in the CB to begin with. I personally think its a bunch of hoop-la over nothing (counterparties aside since that has a real effect on them in the event of a failure/declaration by one of the non-bank subs), just like the million articles about CVA/DVA over the past week. The FDIC and the Fed are just having a regulatory turf battle, they both know if anything happens with BAC that makes this actually an issue, they're both completely fricked anyway.

eta: There was also rumblings earlier this year (probably completely unfounded and just pure speculation that just happens to make sense) of BAC spinning-off ML, so I will continue that wild speculation and say it might have something to do with that as they continue to restructure the beast.
This post was edited on 10/20/11 at 4:38 pm
Posted by Blakely Bimbo
Member since Dec 2010
1183 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 4:46 pm to
quote:

Put them in whatever opco you want, if the holdco declares bk derivative counterparties are first in line.


So, in a SHTF situation the counterparties are ahead of the depositors?
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 5:00 pm to
LINK ][LINK]


quote:

The collapse of Long Term Capital Management (“LTCM”) in Fall 1998 and the Federal Reserve Bank’s subsequent efforts to orchestrate a bailout raise important questions about the structure of the Bankruptcy Code. The Code contains numerous provisions affording special treatment to financial derivatives contracts, the most important of which exempts these contracts from the “automatic stay” and permits counterparties to terminate derivatives contracts with a debtor in bankruptcy and seize underlying collateral. No other counterparty or creditor of the debtor has such freedom;
Posted by Poodlebrain
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
19860 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

BofA doesn't pay FDIC premiums?

How long has BofA held these "deposits", and what fees have they collected with respect to them? If they are "deppsits" now, then they were "deposits" when the accounts originated, and BofA should owe premiums for the period of time they mistakenly failed to report the proper amount of the "deposits" they held.
Posted by Tiger JJ
Member since Aug 2010
545 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 6:53 pm to
quote:

So, in a SHTF situation the counterparties are ahead of the depositors?


Yes.
Posted by Tiger JJ
Member since Aug 2010
545 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 6:54 pm to
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 7:02 pm to
They're talking about moving derivatives, not fdic-insured deposits.
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 10/20/11 at 7:07 pm to
quote:

OCT 20, 2011
5:59 PM EDT
@KidDynamite:
what I mean is that all banks (except MS) book the bulk of their derivatives to the FDIC insured bank, so don’t see why Bank of America should keep 25% of it (the Merrill part) to the bank holding corp to pacify Yves Smith.
Posted by alea | Report as abusive




quote:

OCT 20, 2011
6:56 PM EDT
How are we going to fit that on a sign at #OWS?
Posted by ucgoldenbears | Report as abusive


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