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re: Big brain economist folks, is this the plan?

Posted on 3/15/25 at 6:49 am to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465033 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 6:49 am to
quote:

The TLDR is tons of foreign money has been told in so uncertain terms, cash out, take your money home and provide for your own defense, we can't afford to provide it for you anymore. When interest>defense the empire stage is over. As we attempt to reduce twin deficits capital will necessarily migrate out, especially from obvious places, mag 7>bag 7.

US treasuries have been the global reserve asset since 1971. That's over if Trump is successful. It has to be. This is an attempted reversal of the Triffin Dilemma. Eventually reshoring will have to be subsidised. That will be very inflationary.


How does this not result in an absolute crash of the American economy and then the world economy?
Posted by Art Blakey
Member since Aug 2023
287 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:32 am to
quote:


How does this not result in an absolute crash of the American economy and then the world economy?


It might, but so far it's been orderly with 1-3% daily drops, the MOVE index (bond vol) hasn't spiked yet either. They can't really let it crash because all the risk has been concentrated in government balance sheets post GFC.

I think a huge reordering is going to happen over a weekend not unlike the Nixon Shock or Plaza Accord. We wake up one Monday, gold up, dollar down (especially against the rmb), debt/gdp down on some accounting gimmick and away we go. All our newly found fiscal headroom is used for industrial policy/reshoring.

Xi wants this too btw in some form or fashion. He wants to consume more of his production and he needs a stronger rmb (against the usd) to do that. Conversely, we want to produce more of our consumption. Not going to war over the details on how that gets accomplished is the name of the game for the foreseeable future.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465033 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:26 am to
I'm talking more about the "Make America Poor" and the "remove the global reserve asset from the world economy" parts.

Sure things are orderly now but America is still rich and the world has a reserve asset (and currency, for that matter).

If the US intentionally engages in an economic policy to make us poor and devolve our economy/SOL while the world faces the instability of not having a reserve asset/currency, that's going to be bad. There is nothing close to being able to supplant the US or our economy/assets.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
3946 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:32 am to
We’re going to be replaced. It’s going to happen. The entire reason we are the reserve currency is our relative stability to the world.

The last 2 months have demonstrated that to be a farce.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465033 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:50 am to
quote:

We’re going to be replaced. It’s going to happen.

In theory, sure.

As it stands now, it will be more like replacing Rome (which took 1000 years depending on how you see the Eastern empire) than replacing the British empire.

There is nobody close to filling the gap, and I mean NOWHERE close. We are the driver of international trade and Pax Americana ensures low transaction costs and a major reduction in negative externalities for everyone. Again, there is nobody close to filling that gap, either.

USD/UST have problems and we have a debt problem. Europe is in a worse position and they're the closest thing to a #2. China's economy is faltering and their monetary policy isn't compatible with being a reserve currency. If you remove Europe and China, there isn't even anyone capable of claiming 4th place.

quote:

The entire reason we are the reserve currency is our relative stability to the world.

And removing them means increased instability with nobody capable of replacing that stability, which means even more instability. That's my point.

quote:

The last 2 months have demonstrated that to be a farce.

No. We are still the prettiest girl at the fair by far.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
3946 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:52 am to
quote:

No. We are still the prettiest girl at the fair by far.


That’s why I said “going to be replaced” rather than “have been replaced”. The gears are now in motion.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465033 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:58 am to
quote:

That’s why I said “going to be replaced” rather than “have been replaced”. The gears are now in motion.

And as I said, that "replacement" is going to require collapse of the worldwide economic system and our SOL, like following the fall of Rome.

After that thousand or so years of squalor, someone else will likely emerge, yes.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
3946 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 9:09 am to
I think technology and the general inter connectedness of the world will make that process go a bit faster than a time period wherein plumbing was a huge advantage.
Posted by Art Blakey
Member since Aug 2023
287 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 9:13 am to
quote:

I'm talking more about the "Make America Poor" and the "remove the global reserve asset from the world economy" parts.

Sure things are orderly now but America is still rich and the world has a reserve asset (and currency, for that matter).

If the US intentionally engages in an economic policy to make us poor and devolve our economy/SOL while the world faces the instability of not having a reserve asset/currency, that's going to be bad. There is nothing close to being able to supplant the US or our economy/assets.


If you're not aware this economy is a cheap money/debt mirage that has bifurcated into two distinct classes, asset owners (equities/R/E) and serfs. Generally, the serfs vote populist and the asset owners vote establishment. If the underlying issues that led to the greatest wealth divide since Rome are not addressed political instability and chaos will increase until we're basically S Africa.

Go find a chart with deaths of despair (suicide/drug OD) overlayed with capital exports (plants/factories) since China joined the WTO. It's the same chart and it is a mirror image of what it looked like in the Soviet Union in the late 80s.

There is no plan to make America poor. The plan that made much of America poor that included NAFTA and Chinese inclusion into the WTO is being unwound.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465033 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 9:14 am to
quote:

I think technology and the general inter connectedness of the world will make that process go a bit faster than a time period wherein plumbing was a huge advantage.

It's the opposite. The modern economy is much more fragile to disruption. We rely so much on technology that slight disruptions have exponentially larger effects.

And technology is small potatoes compared to petro. Without a steady source of petro in the majority of the world, we're back in the 17 or 18 century technology-wise pretty quickly. The countries like the US who have petro can survive for a time...until things break. Then when we can't fuel huge ships to bring cargo and the areas that produce parts/tech we need don't have petro and are worthless, we don't have petro.

The part that leads to collapse is the snowball that occurs when a modern society reverts back to an older society without the knowledge of how to make that society work, so you transport all of us to the 18th century and within a generation we're at the level of the 12th century.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465033 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 9:17 am to
quote:

Go find a chart with deaths of despair (suicide/drug OD) overlayed with capital exports (plants/factories) since China joined the WTO.

Yes. Lower class white people have adapted poorly to the modern economy by making bad choices, causing non-Leftists to see this as a crisis (as the Leftists discussed these same externalities with black people for decades prior)

quote:

The plan that made much of America poor that included NAFTA and Chinese inclusion into the WTO is being unwound.

Subsidizing bad decision makers by taking from producers is Leftism that makes everyone poor. We've seen this redistributive policy fail over and over.

At least this time your type isn't claiming this is real Communism and you're using a different label to describe the failed policy. It removes some irony.
Posted by Art Blakey
Member since Aug 2023
287 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 9:38 am to
Your wholesale lack of understanding of the Bretton Woods system, the Triffin Dilemma and past policy to paper over its inherent flaws makes any further discussion futile.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465033 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 9:43 am to
What does that have to do with poor white people becoming bad decision makers and your desire to use Leftism to subsidize their limited economic outlook post-bad decisionmaking?

If we stop babying them and they start making better economic decisions, it solves the problem. There are economic opportunities out there for them, also, as the trade economy has a huge demand for workers. It's just harder work than their former options of suboptimal, overpaid lower-level factory work (the output of poor countries)
This post was edited on 3/15/25 at 9:44 am
Posted by SoLaSMB
Member since Feb 2025
83 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 9:50 am to
quote:

Art Blakey


Appreciate your comments

At the end of day the Trump admin's ambition is to reduce the 10yr treasury right? If they are pushing capital out of us dollars(trade deficit, non-us defense spending etc) wouldn't that actually increase the 10yr?

For positioning, I agree mostly. I'm leaning more into commodity plays and real assets, including private. I'm more convinced on gold rather than bitcoin.

One contrasting point to consider is if you expect mag7 to face headwinds, that will certainly impact your grid buildout.

On the Mar a Lago Accords- I find this to be such an interesting concept. Would countries accept a 100yr bond with no yield to pay for defense protection? I find that incredibly unlikely
This post was edited on 3/15/25 at 9:56 am
Posted by Art Blakey
Member since Aug 2023
287 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 11:17 am to
quote:


Appreciate your comments

At the end of day the Trump admin's ambition is to reduce the 10yr treasury right? If they are pushing capital out of us dollars(trade deficit, non-us defense spending etc) wouldn't that actually increase the 10yr?

For positioning, I agree mostly. I'm leaning more into commodity plays and real assets, including private. I'm more convinced on gold rather than bitcoin.

One contrasting point to consider is if you expect mag7 to face headwinds, that will certainly impact your grid buildout.

On the Mar a Lago Accords- I find this to be such an interesting concept. Would countries accept a 100yr bond with no yield to pay for defense protection? I find that incredibly unlikely


Yes, they desperately need the 10 yr under 4, well under if possible, with 7T to refi plus the 2T+ deficit. Talking equities down and hand waving/ranting about tariffs worked as much it is going to imo. Yields bottomed on 2/28 and have started heading up again.

No, I do not think 50-100 yr traditional USTs in exchange for defense will work. If they juiced them it might, by juice I mean adding a sweetner, gold and/or btc on the yield curve. Ex: $1000 50yr gold bond with substandard rate but $100 of that buys gold for Ft. Knox. At term you get $900 back plus a gold amount that was valued at $50 when you bought the bond, govt keeps the other $50 worth of gold (which presumably has appreciated more than enough to compensate for the shitty rate).

This could move us to a two tiered dollar system, domestic usd/tier 1, Eurodollar/tier 2. Americans get access to tier 1 juiced bonds as do American allies who meet certain criteria. If the Brics want to trade primarily in RMB they can still buy US debt but tier 2, shitty rates, i.e., certificates of confiscation, lol.

If this works the Treasury basically becomes the Fed, setting rates etc...much like it worked in the late 40s, the last time we were in fiscal dominance from the ww2 debt overhang.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61257 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 11:42 am to
quote:

That’s why I said “going to be replaced” rather than “have been replaced”.


Who’s going to replace us and where is this after place the world is moving their money to?
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
21756 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 5:25 pm to
quote:

They have to get the dollar and yields down to reshore without blowing up the system. My guess is a gold write up is coming later this year to accomplish that if Powell won't play ball by capping yields, aka, by QEing Trump's agenda

What's the magnitude of a gold write up? $500B? Would that move the needle enough?
Posted by lsuconnman
Baton rouge
Member since Feb 2007
4429 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

We’re going to be replaced. It’s going to happen. The entire reason we are the reserve currency is our relative stability to the world.


Relative strength is the variable being ignored. If Trump’s approach backfires on the US, imagine the magnifying approach on Canada or Mexico.

This scenario is basically a dump truck speeding towards a sedan in a game of chicken. Add to that, the dump truck driver is a loose cannon.

Game theory says the sedan driver’s choice is elimination or concession. The only play is to find someone who can convince the loose cannon to pull over.




Posted by eatpie
Kentucky
Member since Aug 2018
1554 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 8:50 am to
quote:

I couldn't care less what kind of employees they are. Just cutting jobs to cut jobs is a poor decision, imo. It's not doing anything to cut waste, imo.


Firing DEI hires and eliminating the positions is absolutely cutting waste! How does having an "LGTBQRSTUV+ outreach liaison" a benefit to the national park system?

And anyone hired under DEI policies for regular positions should certainly be cut. If the hiring was due to anything other than merit, the best person was not hired.

Posted by Artificial Ignorance
Member since Feb 2025
1424 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 11:42 am to
Money supply decrease is the answer
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