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Annual/Lifetime Gift Tax Exemptions

Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:30 pm
Posted by Tigerman McCool1
Member since Sep 2022
7 posts
Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:30 pm
I understand the annual individual to individual annual gift exemption limits. Reading up on the lifetime exemption, it appears you can go beyond the annual limit without paying taxes as long as it is claimed at tax time and you are below the lifetime exemption limit of $11.7M. Am I understanding this correctly? Would the recipient be taxed on any gifts over the annual limit? Are there any better options to transfer wealth from one generation to the next?
Posted by DumpsterFire
Member since Sep 2012
1450 posts
Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:35 pm to
If you are in a position to exceed the lifetime exemption, then you should probably consult an attorney that is an expert in this subject. Wealth transfer can get hideously complicated.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
71041 posts
Posted on 9/23/22 at 12:36 pm to
Yep.

Over a certain amount has to be reported so they can keep a running tally, but you don't pay taxes until you exceed the lifetime limit.

I believe the donor is responsible for the taxes, but you might want to confirm with the OT where they have a lot of experience with this.
Posted by JumpingTheShark
America
Member since Nov 2012
22898 posts
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:08 pm to
If you exceed the annual gifting exclusion of $16,000 you need to file a gift tax return but no tax will be owed if you have enough room in your lifetime giving. Yes the donor is responsible for the tax. If you are gifting ownership in a company you should consult an attorney and hire someone to do a business valuation because you can obtain significant discounts on minority ownerships that will allow you to reduce your estate and gift more at a discounted value. It’s a great tax planning strategy. Happy to answer any questions.
This post was edited on 9/23/22 at 1:15 pm
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37081 posts
Posted on 9/23/22 at 1:10 pm to
If you exceed the annual gift limits, you apply the overage to your lifetime combined gift/estate tax exemption.

Also... most of us are expecting the annual limit to go up by 1K in 2023.

If you need to claim some of the lifetime exemption, you need to file Form 709 each year for when this happens. This a seperate tax return.

You want to keep Form 709 for life... as any future Form 709s and/or the estate tax return Form 706 will need to tie back to past ones filed.

Recepietns are never taxed under federal law.

quote:

Are there any better options to transfer wealth from one generation to the next?


There's an entire universe of estate planning out there.

Given that in 2026 the estwte/gift lifetime thresshold is scheduled to drop... I usually reccomend to clients that they start taking this seriously when assets exceed $4M single / $8M married.
This post was edited on 9/23/22 at 1:12 pm
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14960 posts
Posted on 9/24/22 at 12:40 am to
quote:

There's an entire universe of estate planning out there.


And it’s absolutely fascinating.


quote:

Given that in 2026 the estwte/gift lifetime thresshold is scheduled to drop... I usually reccomend to clients that they start taking this seriously when assets exceed $4M single / $8M married.


The ever-moving target here is fairly annoying. As it is currently $11.7MM single / $23.4MM couple, there is little need for almost anyone to even know that there is such a limit. But 4/8 are numbers that a lot of “regular” people will be affected by.

Some interesting things I’ve learned:
1) gifting $16,000 from you to your child or $32,000 from you and your wife to your child requires no paperwork
2) let’s say you have $500MM and want to set your kids up in the best way possible. You’re only 50. You don’t have plans to spend all of the money before you die. You’ll usually come out better by gifting your 25 year old kid $11.7MM today, because they will pay no taxes on it. Then, they may invest it and only pay taxes on the earnings. That $11.7MM could be worth triple that by the time you die, and then everything about the $11.7MM will be subject to estate tax rather than, in all likelihood, long-term capital gains rates. The exercise is close to impossible to think about for almost all of us at the current thresholds. But there are probably quite a few folks out there that will be in the $10-20MMish range that would benefit from giving some amount now. Of course, in 40 years, the level may be even higher, and they may lose the benefit of holding it til death and granting their heirs their step up in basis. Or the step-up on basis may disappear entirely. Thanks, rule changers who get to change the rules making estate planning very difficult to know a lot about for a long time.
3) family loans exist. I’m using year-old memory from a white coat investor episode here, so please check me on it, but: you can loan family money, but there is an interest rate (IRS-dictated) and paperwork that has to be done to do it. You can craft it in such a way that you give some lump some to an heir today, and you want that sum to be just right at the amount that is going to accumulate $16,000/y in interest. Then each year, you pull the stunt from #1, but your heir-apparent writes a check for that amount back to you to satisfy the interest charge on the loan. I’m too lazy to look it up or remember if it was single-single or couple-couple transfer, but the amount at the rate at the time of the episode that I seem to remember was about $2.5MM (or in other words- you can give them a $2.5MM check today with a small contract saying the interest is due at this rate, that often, with the principle to be returned (can be never, it seemed) and then gift them the interest payment until you die). I’m obviously quite fuzzy on the details as I’m in no position to give or receive such a loan, but general premise intrigued me.
4) if you own a business, you can hire your kids and pay them then “match” their earnings put into a Roth IRA. I haven’t figured out how to employ an 18 month old in a way to justify $6,000 of compensation per year. Allowance and gifts don’t count. They have to report the income and pay taxes on it. But in terms of wealth transfer, I want to find a way to make them earn my money from me at a young age (perhaps filing papers, shredding papers at home) and toss it in a Roth IRA. WCI employs his kids as models for his webpage- a fairly brilliant strategy.
Posted by MSTiger33
Member since Oct 2007
20381 posts
Posted on 9/24/22 at 5:48 am to
The exemption is $12.06M per person and gets adjusted for inflation each year until 2026 when we expect the new exemption will be around $6.5M upon sunset. The donor is responsible for reporting taxable gifts over $16,000 on Form 709 for the year the gift was made.

There are a few techniques out there that we use to discount gifts if we are trying to squeeze more juice for the exemption. Also loans to defective grantor trusts or GRATs can be used to move money if you are out of exemption. Issue there is that rising interest rates and market volatility make these techniques a little more tricky.

Is there anything specific that you want to know? This is my wheelhouse.
This post was edited on 9/24/22 at 5:51 am
Posted by DaRobber
Hangin' with the ranters
Member since May 2006
309 posts
Posted on 9/24/22 at 7:27 am to
Can an irrevocable trust donate money using form 709 or is it just for individuals? I’m curious the best way to give money from a trust other than the annual gift while avoiding taxes.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
52970 posts
Posted on 9/24/22 at 8:12 am to
What’s really scary is that when the Dems win in November they’re probably gonna raise the death tax and screw all us millenials who’ve been working so hard for our inheritance
Posted by Chinese Bandit Boy
Member since Jun 2021
541 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

If you exceed the annual gifting exclusion of $16,000 you need to file a gift tax return but no tax will be owed if you have enough room in your lifetime giving.


Since you are giving advice what is the penalty if you do not file a gift tax return showing an annual gift in excess of $16K?
This post was edited on 9/25/22 at 1:35 pm
Posted by MSTiger33
Member since Oct 2007
20381 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 8:18 pm to
quote:

Can an irrevocable trust donate money using form 709 or is it just for individuals? I’m curious the best way to give money from a trust other than the annual gift while avoiding taxes.



The irrevocable trust can only make distributions to the named beneficiaries. The caveat being is if the beneficiary has a lifetime power of appointment and the appointee is in a class of individuals that can receive a distribution under the power of appointment. Otherwise, the trust will have to make a distribution to the beneficiary and then the beneficiary makes the gift to the person (Form 709 is required if gift is over the annual exclusion). Care should be taken in this case that the initial distribution from the trust to the beneficiary does not violate the provisions of the trust.

In terms of taxes, are you talking about income or gift taxes? Gift taxes can be offset with exemption. Income taxes can be offset with distributions of principal and not income. What are the dispositive terms of the trust?
Posted by JumpingTheShark
America
Member since Nov 2012
22898 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 6:33 am to
I think they might charge you with tax on the gift amount and 5% of the tax as penalty PER MONTH. It varies I think and depends on how the IRS views your situation.
Posted by hedgediver
LSU
Member since Sep 2004
2094 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 6:39 am to
Likely none as failure to file and failure to pay penalties are based on situations where there is tax due. Unless you have already exceeded the the lifetime exclusion there would be no tax due. One of the biggest issues I see is that if you don’t file the return, the statute of limitations doesn’t start running for that particular year.
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 6:53 am to
quote:

Given that in 2026 the estwte/gift lifetime thresshold is scheduled to drop... I usually reccomend to clients that they start taking this seriously when assets exceed $4M single / $8M married.


Assuming the law doesn't change, it will drop to $5 million per person. However, it will be indexed to inflation back from 2010. So, by 2026 it will probably be in the $7-8 million (or much more given Bidinflation) range per person.

I read last week that the annual gift exclusion is expected to go up to $17k next year. Usually the gift exclusion stays at the same level for 4-6 years. However, thanks to runaway inflation, the exclusion will be going up to $17k after only one year at $16k.

ETA: The exemption amount is scheduled to go to $12.92 million in 2023. So I guess Bidinflation will be helping the wealthiest avoid estate tax.
This post was edited on 9/26/22 at 6:58 am
Posted by MSTiger33
Member since Oct 2007
20381 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 6:58 am to
Yeah, we are pegging the sunset amount at work to be around $6.5M. I hadn't heard that we may see an increase in the annual exclusion would increase to $17,000 next year.
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 7:15 am to
quote:

I hadn't heard that we may see an increase in the annual exclusion would increase to $17,000 next year.


Some group does an annual forecast about 2 months prior to the actual numbers coming out. Apparently, they've never been wrong. I read it online in Accounting Today.

quote:

Yeah, we are pegging the sunset amount at work to be around $6.5M.


It was at something like $5.9 million back in 2017. It should be at least a million over that by 2026 -- especially after last year and the inflation that is expected in the coming years.
This post was edited on 9/26/22 at 7:19 am
Posted by MSTiger33
Member since Oct 2007
20381 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 8:55 am to
Agreed. This year is going to make it rocket up
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 10:39 am to
If Caesars had an over/under on the amount in 2026, I would put money on anywhere between $7.3 million and $7.5 million. Extrapolating, I would bet it would already be around $6.9 million.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37081 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

One of the biggest issues I see is that if you don’t file the return, the statute of limitations doesn’t start running for that particular year.


Yup... we call this the "file and run" strategy.

IF you are taking discounts that are, shall we say, aggressive, file the gift tax return so the statue of limitations clock starts to run.

Especially these days where the IRS is understafed.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37081 posts
Posted on 9/26/22 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

Assuming the law doesn't change, it will drop to $5 million per person. However, it will be indexed to inflation back from 2010. So, by 2026 it will probably be in the $7-8 million (or much more given Bidinflation) range per person.


I'm expecting 7M. But a 50 year old with 4M today, it's reasonable that his asset base could grow faster than inflation especially if he has a lot of private held businesses... which could easily make up that gap to 7M in today's dollars.

Every situation is different. An 80 year old with 4.1M in bonds is probably going to be ok.
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