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re: Who's Calling Plays - Ensminger or Brady?
Posted on 8/14/19 at 11:54 am to Lester Earl
Posted on 8/14/19 at 11:54 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Recent trend shows that waiting your turn isn’t so much the case anymore;
Correct.
30 years ago? Sure.
2
Posted on 8/14/19 at 11:58 am to SportTiger1
Look at Riley’s bio, Kingsbury. Jake Spivital, Briles.
Brady is a passing game coor & WR coach. He hasn’t an OC. Got to remember that
quote:
show they were all OC's or at least co-OC prior to being hired. And then you have Sark at Bama
Brady is a passing game coor & WR coach. He hasn’t an OC. Got to remember that
Posted on 8/14/19 at 11:59 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Recent trend shows that waiting your turn isn’t so much the case anymore; coaches, especially offensive minded coaches, are being accelerated thru the ranks rather quickly. An arms race is happening; get those guys before your competitor.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but what are some examples of this?
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:02 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Look at Riley’s bio
Offensive assistant at Texas Tech and East Carolina for 12 years before being name OC at OU.
quote:
Kingsbury
I'll give you that. He had a metoeric rise, though the Kingsbury experiment's success is still very much TBD.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You mean the Head Coach?
Who was his OC?
Don't know off the top of my head.
But since when do we doubt that if you have an offensive HC, that offense that they run is his philosophy? We don't ask who Mike Leach's OC is. We don't ask who Lincoln Riley's OC is. We assumed that the toss dive was all Les, even though he wasn't the OC here. That was Mangino's offense.
This post was edited on 8/14/19 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:04 pm to lsu2006
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Offensive assistant at Texas Tech and East Carolina for 12 years before being name OC at OU.
Riley got his first fulltime assistant job two years before he was named OC at ECU. n
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:04 pm to lsu2006
Kingsbury was fired from Tech. If I'm not mistaken, he was going to be Helton's OC, prior to taking the Cardinals HC job.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Correct.
but its not...go look for yourself
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:06 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
That was Mangino's offense.
Mangino wasn't a young guy, Mangino was HC, Mangino did get his start at Kansas.
BTW: He was a assistant two years before being named OC
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:07 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Brady is a passing game coor & WR coach. He hasn’t an OC. Got to remember that
i was specfically referring to Roger saying he is the defacto co-OC, which i think +50% of our fanbase agrees with.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:07 pm to Goldrush25
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:07 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Riley got his first fulltime assistant job two years before he was named OC at ECU
Hmmm, at ECU. A directional school, not Clemson or some major program right off the bat.
quote:
Mangino wasn't a young guy, Mangino was HC, Mangino did get his start at Kansas.
BTW: He was a assistant two years before being named OC
Looks like he was a RGC (I'm guessing that stands for running game coordinator) for 8 years at KSU before OU.
This post was edited on 8/14/19 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:08 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Riley got his first fulltime assistant job two years before he was named OC at ECU. n
it's fine for ECU to take those chances. LSU, not so much
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:10 pm to SportTiger1
quote:
Brady going from NFL OA to 'Co-OC' as you call him, is a HUGE jump in paid grade. And, one that most teams dont make. Maybe it works, but its definitely out of the ordinary, like most things that O does.
Think of it this way:
If it was the norm, or ordinary, then there wouldn't be so much ink spilled this offseason regarding a 29 year old coming on staff as a passing game coordinator looking to implement new aspects to the offense.
Think of it another way:
Zach von Rosenberg and Joe Brady as basically the same age.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:11 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Hmmm, at ECU. A directional school, not Clemson right off the bat.
I don't see your point. He would have killed at OU 2 years after being hired as an assistant.
He lit it up at ECU. Riley was a genius.
Brady will do fine calling plays with Ensminger beside him in the booth.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Kingsbury isn't even comparable to Bradys jump...
As coach:
Houston (2008–2009) - Offensive quality control coach
Houston (2010–2011)- Co-Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Texas A&M (2012)-Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Texas Tech (2013–2018)-Head coach
Arizona Cardinals (2019–present)Head coach
He was OC at Houston for 2 years before moving to aTm (with Sumlin i might add!)
ETA - it WAS in fact a short period of time, but the progression of job grades was quite ordinary
As coach:
Houston (2008–2009) - Offensive quality control coach
Houston (2010–2011)- Co-Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Texas A&M (2012)-Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach
Texas Tech (2013–2018)-Head coach
Arizona Cardinals (2019–present)Head coach
He was OC at Houston for 2 years before moving to aTm (with Sumlin i might add!)
ETA - it WAS in fact a short period of time, but the progression of job grades was quite ordinary
This post was edited on 8/14/19 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:13 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Like I said, Ensminger will be the guy calling plays next year, at least most of the time.
He's experienced, and it's being underestimated just how important it is to get that play in fast. It's far easier to give him a new set of plays to pick from, than to put Brady in there and hope he can manage a game without things bogging down.
Now, this can clearly evolve over time, and I'm pretty sure all parties want that to be the case. Ensminger didn't want to be that man, and I'm sure Brady does. So Brady is doing an apprenticeship under E, to sit right beside him during the game, and learn how to do it.
If you're NOT calling the game, you can develop all the creative plays you want, and that's great. But if you're calling the game, you have to pick 1 (maybe with 2 alternates) in a matter of seconds, and get it to the offense. And you can't just script it, because there could be defensive changes you have to adjust to, on the fly.
I think Brady might be the creative genius type, but you have to groom him into the playcaller.
TL,DR version: Brady can probably come up with better plays, but Ensminger, right now, can probably pick the better play from a list, if you give them both 5 seconds to do so.
He's experienced, and it's being underestimated just how important it is to get that play in fast. It's far easier to give him a new set of plays to pick from, than to put Brady in there and hope he can manage a game without things bogging down.
Now, this can clearly evolve over time, and I'm pretty sure all parties want that to be the case. Ensminger didn't want to be that man, and I'm sure Brady does. So Brady is doing an apprenticeship under E, to sit right beside him during the game, and learn how to do it.
If you're NOT calling the game, you can develop all the creative plays you want, and that's great. But if you're calling the game, you have to pick 1 (maybe with 2 alternates) in a matter of seconds, and get it to the offense. And you can't just script it, because there could be defensive changes you have to adjust to, on the fly.
I think Brady might be the creative genius type, but you have to groom him into the playcaller.
TL,DR version: Brady can probably come up with better plays, but Ensminger, right now, can probably pick the better play from a list, if you give them both 5 seconds to do so.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:13 pm to RogerTheShrubber
You're making an assumption. We don't know what he would've done. All we know is the path he did take.
He didn't get the big job right off the bat. There are plenty of examples of great coaches like Lincoln Riley proving their worth at smaller schools before getting their big shot. That's typically the way it's done.
He didn't get the big job right off the bat. There are plenty of examples of great coaches like Lincoln Riley proving their worth at smaller schools before getting their big shot. That's typically the way it's done.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:13 pm to SportTiger1
quote:
He was OC at Houston for 2 years before moving to aTm (with Sumlin i might add!)
Kingsbury is way overrated. Hell, Kiffin is better.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:13 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Right sometimes notariety needs time to catch up to ability.
Sometimes it takes some time end up on a lot of schools radars.
Sometimes you end up on them pretty quick.
Sometimes it takes some time end up on a lot of schools radars.
Sometimes you end up on them pretty quick.
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