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re: What if I told you there were no villains here?
Posted on 4/3/23 at 11:49 am to Metaloctopus
Posted on 4/3/23 at 11:49 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
It has always been understood that is not good sportsmanship.
Whether you agree with it or not, sportsmanship is a thing of the past. This is the new norm, for better or worse.
quote:
Cheap shots happen in sports. Is it right? Is it ok to hit a quarterback well after the throw, because it's a sport?
No one said anything about cheap shots that can injure someone. Trash talk isn't going to end someone's career. This is a false equivalency.
quote:
I can't believe this has to be explained to anyone. Where are the adults?
Lmao you don't have to explain any of this to us. We know exactly what you're referring to. We just live in the real world, while you're clinging to a utopian idea that doesn't exist anymore. There is nothing at all wrong with that, it just isn't realistic in sports in 2023.
1
Posted on 4/3/23 at 11:54 am to Lsupimp
I don't recall seeing Reese doing that type of thing the entire season, which shows what she's really like. Then when she taunts Clark in the exact same way Clark taunted everyone else, Reese is vilified.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 11:59 am to Lsupimp
Yep. I agree. In fact, I think the only villain here is ESPN. Yesterday afternoon should've been the women's equivalent of Magic-Bird impact wise, and what do they do? Turn it into this BS that everybody is whining about.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:10 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Whether you agree with it or not, sportsmanship is a thing of the past. This is the new norm, for better or worse.
It only becomes the norm when you allow it to be by justifying it. I'm not going to give in to your cultural "revolution", that is poisoning society.
quote:
No one said anything about cheap shots that can injure someone. Trash talk isn't going to end someone's career. This is a false equivalency.
A false equivalency? You said it's sports and it happens. Ok, let's go over all the things that happen in sports and ask ourselves what is right or wrong. If you believe that things happen in the heat of the moment in sports, then the same can be said for cheap shot. We can say "well the game happens so fast, sometimes you just react". But we don't seem to have a problem making moral judgments about that.
quote:
Lmao you don't have to explain any of this to us. We know exactly what you're referring to. We just live in the real world, while you're clinging to a utopian idea that doesn't exist anymore. There is nothing at all wrong with that, it just isn't realistic in sports in 2023.
The fact that you think behaving like an adult is the equivalent to a "utopian idea", just says everything. There is something wrong with it. If there weren't I'd be in the minority. As you can see, I'm nowhere close to being in the minority. That's because there is a difference between trash talking, and the blatant disrespect at the end of a game that Reese displayed. I love the girl, and I'll keep pulling for her. I'm not going to make excuses for her any more than I would for my own daughter.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:20 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
It only becomes the norm when you allow it to be by justifying it. I'm not going to give in to your cultural "revolution", that is poisoning society.
It's not my revolution. I'm just pointing out the reality of modern sports.
quote:
A false equivalency? You said it's sports and it happens. Ok, let's go over all the things that happen in sports and ask ourselves what is right or wrong. If you believe that things happen in the heat of the moment in sports, then the same can be said for cheap shot. We can say "well the game happens so fast, sometimes you just react". But we don't seem to have a problem making moral judgments about that.
Haha, I mean you are getting really carried away here. If you can't see the difference between these two things then I don't know what to tell you. That's like saying "well if we allow people to get drunk in the French Quarter we should also allow people to get murdered in the French Quarter."
quote:
The fact that you think behaving like an adult is the equivalent to a "utopian idea", just says everything. There is something wrong with it. If there weren't I'd be in the minority. As you can see, I'm nowhere close to being in the minority. That's because there is a difference between trash talking, and the blatant disrespect at the end of a game that Reese displayed. I love the girl, and I'll keep pulling for her. I'm not going to make excuses for her any more than I would for my own daughter.
You didn't read my post. I'm pointing out the reality of the situation. That's all. This is modern sports. That's all I'm saying. And I'm not sure you're in the majority here, but I'm also not interested in counting Tweets and posts on TD to see who everyone agrees with most. The fact of the matter is, you're going to have a really rough time watching any sport in general if this is as big of an issue for you as you're making it out to be.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:22 pm to Lsupimp
I agree to a point. There were no villains on the court. There were tons of villains off the court and in social media.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:23 pm to Sun God
quote:
Vanderbilt game Burrow went after their whole sideline
That was in direct response to a cheap shot. Not an unsolicited act of bravado at the end of a game.
And for all the insistence that LSU fans worship Joe Burrow, many of us have rolled our eyes at his flamboyance since he entered the league, and have criticized some rather woke comments he's made. Selective memory serves the narrative of those who insist that only Angel is criticized.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:24 pm to Lsupimp
I'd say I agree 150%.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:30 pm to Johnny Roastbeef
One other difference:
#1 -- After game she'd won
#2 -- During the game she's trying to win
I guess I'm the only one who thinks there's a difference between competing during a game and rubbing it in afterwards. We used to shake hands after the games.
But the real point is NATIONAL CHAMPS, BABY!!!
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:33 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Haha, I mean you are getting really carried away here. If you can't see the difference between these two things then I don't know what to tell you. That's like saying "well if we allow people to get drunk in the French Quarter we should also allow people to get murdered in the French Quarter.
You think it's funny, but that's exactly my point. You think that as long as it's sports, we can't make moral judgments, UNLESS it's bad enough. Why does something have to be as serious as murder or abuse in order to say that it's wrong?
quote:
You didn't read my post. I'm pointing out the reality of the situation. That's all. This is modern sports. That's all I'm saying. And I'm not sure you're in the majority here, but I'm also not interested in counting Tweets and posts on TD to see who everyone agrees with most. The fact of the matter is, you're going to have a really rough time watching any sport in general if this is as big of an issue for you as you're making it out to be.
I did read your post. You're now telling me that you're just pointing things out, but you accused me of having a utopian idealist mindset, before. That doesn't sound like someone who's just pointing something out. It sounds like someone who is bought into the kind of behavior I'm objecting to. But I digress. This is not modern sports. There are lines of what is acceptable. I've never in my life (not saying it's never happened) seen a player get in the face of another player when the game was ending to not only talk trash, but to make multiple gestures and follow the player around to make sure they see you.
People are reacting the way they are, including me, because that is not at all normal. I'm used to seeing a hard foul, and a player getting up and jawing in direct response to something that just happened. This is not any sort of context where that behavior was warranted. To pretend that this is something you see every day, in any context close to this, is dishonest.
This post was edited on 4/3/23 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 4/3/23 at 12:52 pm to Metaloctopus
Keep moving the goalposts my man
Posted on 4/3/23 at 1:05 pm to Sun God
quote:
Keep moving the goalposts my man
Says the guy who moved the goal posts to compare a direct response in the middle of a game, to a player who reacted to something someone did two games ago, and waited till the end of the game to rub it in. Where was the bravado when the game was in doubt?
Posted on 4/3/23 at 1:06 pm to Metaloctopus
My post before that one was a direct response to your claim that you “never saw Burrow get in someone's face and taunt them” 
This post was edited on 4/3/23 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 4/3/23 at 1:07 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
You think it's funny, but that's exactly my point. You think that as long as it's sports, we can't make moral judgments, UNLESS it's bad enough. Why does something have to be as serious as murder or abuse in order to say that it's wrong?
1) I never said what I think. I'm not sure how many times I have to tell you, but I'm only pointing out the reality of modern sports.
2) I never said you can't make moral judgments. I actually completely understanding your position here. But to act like trash talking is the equivalent of attempting to injure someone is so disconnected from reality.
quote:
You're now telling me that you're just pointing things out, but you accused me of having a utopian idealist mindset, before. That doesn't sound like someone who's just pointing something out.
You do have a utopian mindset. You're romanticizing a perfect world in sports. That perfect world does not exist. That is the very definition of uptopia, and in no way should reflect your personal feelings about whether what she did was right or wrong (or mine for that matter).
quote:
I've never in my life (not saying it's never happened) seen a player get in the face of another player when the game was ending to not only talk trash, but to make multiple gestures and follow the player around to make sure they see you.
You must be joking.
quote:
To pretend that this is something you see every day, in any context close to this, is dishonest.
I think we fundamentally disagree on the above statement, which kind of puts this discussion at a standstill. FWIW, I respect your opinion and did not mean to sound like I was accusing you of being objectively wrong. You aren't. I just think our understanding of sports culture is vastly different.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 1:17 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
That perfect world does not exist. That is the very definition of uptopia, and in no way should reflect your personal feelings about whether what she did was right or wrong (or mine for that matter).
No dog in y'all's fight, but curious about this assertion: what is the "perfect world" if not a collection of all things "right" and no things "wrong"? The defining characteristic of whether something is right or wrong is whether it is part of the "perfect world". Utopia (as it exists in modern parlance) is an aspirational ideal. As such, it is totally the standard against which elements of reality are (or should be) judged as "right" or "wrong". Tolerance, selflessness, compassion, charity, etc., are all utopian ideals; they are not always found in our reality. But that is what makes them "right", and the fact they aren't found in reality doesn't mean intolerance, greed, selfishness, etc., aren't "wrong".
Posted on 4/3/23 at 1:46 pm to King Joey
You are absolutely right. And in a perfect world, all players treat each other with respect. In a perfect world sportsmanship reigns supreme and Angel never does any of this. I'm simply pointing out that world doesn't exist. Sports are emotional. People let their emotions get the best of them and they talk trash. It's just reality. While I would love for a utopia, I'm also not losing any sleep when days like yesterday happen.
Posted on 4/3/23 at 2:13 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
I think any of those guys following around a defeated opponent for extended (more than a moment) period of time trying to get in their face to taunt them would face criticism. It’s the following Clark around that made Reese look bad.
This is the issue I have. Play as physical as you want and talk all the junk you want (short of getting a tech) during the game. Once the game is over though, you line up and finish with class.
That’s at all levels of sport.
The Pistons didn’t get crucified for the Jordan Rules or for trash talking the Bulls. They still haven’t lived down walking off the court as sore losers. And they were dealing with a loss. When you win it looks even worse.
It goes from competitive fire to something vindictive and petty.
I’ve never seen a player—male or female—disrespect an opponent AFTER the game and not be called out for it.
This post was edited on 4/3/23 at 2:14 pm
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