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re: Trindon's "fair catch" at the end of the first half
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:15 am to moneyg
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:15 am to moneyg
quote:
I always thought that once the ball bounced that a fair catch was not possible and that the ball could be advanced. I'm not sure about that but I've always thought that.
once the ball bounces, any signal kills the ball dead, i believe
1
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:20 am to moneyg
quote:
One aspect of the play that I haven't heard discussed is that the ball bounced.
I always thought that once the ball bounced that a fair catch was not possible and that the ball could be advanced. I'm not sure about that but I've always thought that.
Has to bounce off of the returner.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:22 am to lsudiva2010
Actually, it's a poorly written rule, and this is not the kind of thing the rule was supposed to preculde. It was supposed to enforce the fair catch in the UConn scenario, when a player sort half asses a fair catch signal but it confuses the coverage team enough that it should be ebforced out of fairness. In effect, what the Ole Miss player did.
Waving your arms in the incomplete signal does not confuse the return team in the same way. There is no way to misinterpret that as a fair catch. As the way the rule is written, it is a penalty. However, this is NOT the intent of the rule and Holliday's motion is not the sort of thing they were trying to legislate against.
Not a "bad" rule, just one that is written badly.
Waving your arms in the incomplete signal does not confuse the return team in the same way. There is no way to misinterpret that as a fair catch. As the way the rule is written, it is a penalty. However, this is NOT the intent of the rule and Holliday's motion is not the sort of thing they were trying to legislate against.
Not a "bad" rule, just one that is written badly.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:26 am to Baloo
quote:
Not a "bad" rule, just one that is written badly.
True, just peeved it took away Trindon's only 1 this year lol
btw, love the "Hold that Tiger" picture sig!
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
once the ball bounces, any signal kills the ball dead, i believe
I don't think so. You can't call a fair catch once the ball bounces.
Supporting evidence (obvioulsy not an official rulebook).
LINK
quote:
If ball hits ground or is touched by member of kicking team in flight, fair catch signal is off and all rules for a kicked ball apply.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:30 am to moneyg
NFL Rule (From NFL.com)
quote:
The member of the receiving team must raise one arm a full length above his head and wave it from side to side while kick is in flight. (Failure to give proper sign: receivers’ ball five yards behind spot of signal.) Note: It is legal for the receiver to shield his eyes from the sun by raising one hand no higher than the helmet.
No opponent may interfere with the fair catcher, the ball, or his path to the ball. Penalty: 15 yards from spot of foul and fair catch is awarded.
A player who signals for a fair catch is not required to catch the ball. However, if a player signals for a fair catch, he may not block or initiate contact with any player on the kicking team until the ball touches a player. Penalty: snap 15 yards.
If ball hits ground or is touched by member of kicking team in flight, fair catch signal is off and all rules for a kicked ball apply.
Any undue advance by a fair catch receiver is delay of game. No specific distance is specified for undue advance as ball is dead at spot of catch.
If player comes to a reasonable stop, no penalty. For penalty, five yards.
If time expires while ball is in play and a fair catch is awarded, receiving team may choose to extend the period with one fair catch kick down. However, placekicker may not use tee.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:30 am to SlowFlowPro
How? It looked to me like he signaled a fair catch, then slipped as he was trying to pull it in, and tried to pass off the signal as such even though he clearly slipped AFTER making the motion.
Trindon's was obviously a "guys, don't touch the ball" signal.
Trindon's was obviously a "guys, don't touch the ball" signal.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:32 am to Fgiord
quote:
You sure about that chief?
Yeah. New rule two years ago. Once a player waves his hands in any manner the ball is dead once it is caught.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:34 am to Baloo
quote:
Waving your arms in the incomplete signal does not confuse the return team in the same way. There is no way to misinterpret that as a fair catch.
but they signal the same thing
both signal, "we are not returning this punt"
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but they signal the same thing
both signal, "we are not returning this punt"
Did the ball hit the ground on the Ole Miss return? My recollection was it did not.
That is the major difference.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:36 am to lsudiva2010
quote:
True, just peeved it took away Trindon's only 1 this year lol
Did you leave the UNT game early?
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:47 am to Mitchell613
I just researched the college football rule and apparently it is different than the NFL rule.
There is a section describing different scenarios that exactly matches this one (See Page 196):
LINK
There is a section describing different scenarios that exactly matches this one (See Page 196):
LINK
quote:
Team A’s scrimmage kick is rolling beyond the neutral zone when B17 alerts his teammates to stay away from the ball by a “get away” signal at his waist or below. RULING: Invalid signal. The ball is
dead by rule when either team recovers.
Posted on 11/23/08 at 10:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
both signal, "we are not returning this punt"
Not necessarily. TH's signalled to his teammates that it was a short punt and that they needed to clear away from it so that it would not hit them inadvertently. That does not signal that he will not catch it. What the OM player did was wave his hand in the air and it was above his head, simulating a fair catch indicating he would not return. It was the right call, but not a good rule
Posted on 11/23/08 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
But once the ball isn't caught and hits the ground, aren't all fair catch signals off?
Posted on 11/23/08 at 11:12 am to ctalati32
quote:
But once the ball isn't caught and hits the ground, aren't all fair catch signals off?
That's what I thought also.
However, the short answer is that in the NFL, you are correct.
But, in college, the rule is different.
See my post above.
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