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Started By
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re: This isn’t Les Miles’ offense going up against the self proclaimed greatest OC on turf!
Posted on 9/29/23 at 3:58 pm to TDlurker
Posted on 9/29/23 at 3:58 pm to TDlurker
quote:
Those numbers show precisely the opposite; that LSU's offense is more efficient
Yes, I mistyped. Those numbers prove that LSU’s offense is more efficient.
quote:
And to argue that PPG is somehow the final arbiter proving they're "pretty evenly matched" is what's "dumb", as you yourself have argued ad-nauseum that quality of opponents is relevant at this point in the season and skews such stats.
Of course it’s not the end all be all. No single statistic is. But it’s pretty easy to argue that PPG is the single most important statistic in measuring an offense.
quote:
the only reason OM's PPG is near LSU's is because they have 4 more offensive possessions, which at this point of the season is 10% of the total.
You say that like it’s a bad thing. I don’t understand why Ole Miss having more offensive possessions is a bad thing for them?
1
Posted on 9/29/23 at 4:00 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
we’re 4 games in.
half their games are against USF and Middle Tennessee.
And half of our games were against Grambling and Miss St. Every team in the country has been playing shitty teams. Why are we judging anyone’s stats then?
Posted on 9/29/23 at 4:40 pm to LSBoosie
quote:
And half of our games were against Grambling and Miss St. Every team in the country has been playing shitty teams. Why are we judging anyone’s stats then?
Miss State averages 30+ PPG. and they don’t jsut average that, they’ve scored 30 or more points in every game that wasn’t against LSU.
just throwing that out there.
Posted on 9/29/23 at 4:58 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
And half of our games were against Grambling and Miss St. Every team in the country has been playing shitty teams. Why are we judging anyone’s stats then?
Miss State averages 30+ PPG. and they don’t jsut average that, they’ve scored 30 or more points in every game that wasn’t against LSU. just throwing that out there.
Miss St QB passed for over 400 yards vs South Carolina. South Carolina gave Ga grief for a half. SEC is tough, winning on the road is even tougher. There are no cupcakes wins.
Posted on 9/29/23 at 5:02 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Miss State averages 30+ PPG. and they don’t jsut average that, they’ve scored 30 or more points in every game that wasn’t against LSU.
just throwing that out there.
Thanks. I don’t see what that has to do with their defense, but that’s great. Good for LSU’s defense.
Posted on 9/29/23 at 5:10 pm to LSBoosie
quote:It's not a matter of good or bad, it's WHY AND HOW your PPG stat is being skewed! Point is, LSU's offense is doing more with fewer possessions. Because it's a better offense. I don't know how this is hard to understand.
You say that like it’s a bad thing. I don’t understand why Ole Miss having more offensive possessions is a bad thing for them?
Posted on 9/29/23 at 5:27 pm to LSBoosie
Our numbers are inflated because we played Grambling and we couldn’t do no wrong that day.
Posted on 9/29/23 at 6:45 pm to TDlurker
quote:
It's not a matter of good or bad, it's WHY AND HOW your PPG stat is being skewed! Point is, LSU's offense is doing more with fewer possessions. Because it's a better offense. I don't know how this is hard to understand.
Let me present a scenario to you.
Team A: Averages 13 possessions a game, 4 TD, 4 FG.
Team B: Averages 12 possessions a game, 5 TD, 2FG.
You’re going to pretend that those offenses aren’t even close?
Posted on 9/29/23 at 6:54 pm to LSBoosie
quote:
LSU averages 42.8 PPG, Ole Miss averages 42.0 PPG. The offenses are pretty evenly matched.
Harvard averages 43!
Posted on 9/29/23 at 6:57 pm to Penrod
Do you disagree that the offenses are pretty evenly matched?
Posted on 9/29/23 at 7:04 pm to LSBoosie
quote:Except in the case of LSU and Ole Miss, Team B (LSU) is scoring MORE OFTEN than Team A, even with the fewer possessions on average! Is this really that hard to understand?. And what happens when that quirky difference in # of possessions evens out as you add more and more and more games?
Let me present a scenario to you.
Team A: Averages 13 possessions a game, 4 TD, 4 FG.
Team B: Averages 12 possessions a game, 5 TD, 2FG.
You’re going to pretend that those offenses aren’t even close?
Answer: Team B has more PPG, more yards, more TDs, more FGs, scores a ton more points, and is universally understood the better offence than Team A.
Posted on 9/29/23 at 7:20 pm to TDlurker
quote:
Except in the case of LSU and Ole Miss, Team B (LSU) is scoring MORE OFTEN than Team A, even with the fewer possessions on average!
Once again, if you want to say that LSU has a more efficient offense, that’s fine I have never tried to argue against that.
quote:
And what happens when that quirky difference in # of possessions evens out as you add more and more and more games?
Here’s the thing, it’s no guarantee that the # of possessions even out. Some teams try to score faster so they have more possessions/opportunities to score. That is a strategy that teams use.
And again, despite what you may think I have never said that Ole Miss is a better offense than LSU. This was started because someone said that the two offenses aren’t even close. Statistically they are very close. And at the end of the day, the most important statistic when evaluating an offense is how many points they score per game. I legitimately don’t know what you are trying to argue with me about right now.
quote:
scores a ton more points
LSU has scored a total of 3 more points than Ole Miss through 4 games btw.
This post was edited on 9/29/23 at 7:28 pm
Posted on 9/29/23 at 7:38 pm to LSBoosie
quote:As the season wears on and the common opponents pile up, the average difference will converge (absent a major difference in defenses, which would make this entire discussion irrelevant anyway). The current difference exists as a quirk of the difference in the teams they've played, which is the entire variable we are all trying to solve for.
it’s no guarantee that the # of possessions even out
quote:So now you're arguing that a difference in OM's offensive "strategy" is offsetting it's lower production, something you've figured out over the first four games of the season? C'mon.
Some teams try to score faster so they have more possessions/opportunities to score. That is a strategy that teams use.
quote:You made a point to say they were "evenly matched" in response to the OP's contention LSU's offense was better and would score more, to which I responded "I'm not saying OM is shite, but LSU has a meaningful edge in offensive production" with stats to show that.
And again, despite what you may think I have never said that Ole Miss is a better offense than LSU.
Posted on 9/29/23 at 7:44 pm to TrueTigerTale
What? When did Les and Kiffin go against each other?
Posted on 9/29/23 at 7:58 pm to TDlurker
quote:
As the season wears on and the common opponents pile up, the average difference will converge (absent a major difference in defenses, which would make this entire discussion irrelevant anyway). The current difference exists as a quirk of the difference in the teams they've played, which is the entire variable we are all trying to solve for.
As of now, Ole Miss averages one more possession per game than LSU. Hell I might be totally wrong, bu I don’t think k it’s some crazy thing to say that Ole Miss could end the year with 10 more total offensive possessions than LSU.
quote:
So now you're arguing that a difference in OM's offensive "strategy" is offsetting it's lower production, something you've figured out over the first four games of the season?
Oh I have no clue. I’m just saying it’s possible. It would be interesting to see what Ole Miss’s average TOP is on scoring drives.
quote:
You made a point to say they were "evenly matched" in response to the OP's contention LSU's offense was better and would score more, to which I responded "I'm not saying OM is shite, but LSU has a meaningful edge in offensive production" with stats to show that.
I said that in terms of PPG, Ole Miss and LSU offenses are “pretty evenly matched”. That’s just a fact. Some other guy responded to that with “not even close” which is just false. You said that LSU has a meaningful edge in offensive production which I don’t have a problem with you saying. But you also said that PPG isn’t a relevant stat, which I disagree with because it is the most important stat when evaluating an offense.
If you want to say LSU has a better offense because it’s more efficient I’ll agree with you on that. But to say that PPG is an irrelevant stat when evaluating offenses is foolish.
This post was edited on 9/29/23 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 9/29/23 at 8:07 pm to LSBoosie
quote:You've even said it would be "stupid" to suggest one wouldn't use PPG to judge their relative strength. Enough gaslighting, I'm done.
I said that in terms of PPG
Posted on 9/29/23 at 8:13 pm to TDlurker
quote:
You've even said it would be "stupid" to suggest one wouldn't use PPG to judge their relative strength. Enough gaslighting, I'm done.
Huh? Yes I am on record as saying I think it’s stupid to think that PPG is an irrelevant stat when it comes to evaluating an offense. You can bookmark that take. I still don’t know what you are arguing with me about, unless you are just going to die on the hill that PPG is an irrelevant stat, then yeah I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
This post was edited on 9/29/23 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 9/29/23 at 8:21 pm to LSBoosie
quote:Yes, 4 games in when there is a 19% difference in number of possessions (with no common opponents), it's irrelevant.
PPG is an irrelevant sta
Posted on 9/29/23 at 8:30 pm to TDlurker
quote:
Yes, 4 games in when there is a 19% difference in number of possessions (with no common opponents), it's irrelevant.
I know 19% makes it sound better, but you can use numbers instead of percentages. It’s 4 total possessions.
Also can you give me what stats are currently acceptable to use and what week future stats will be available? I would like to know in case some else gets mad because I said two teams that are statistically pretty even are statistically pretty even.
Posted on 9/29/23 at 9:44 pm to LSBoosie
quote:which is 10% of the possessions so far - a significant number. Adjusting for it, LSU would have significantly more PPG - the only stat you're paying attention to.
It’s 4 total possessions.
quote:How about...offensive PPG, which LSU is leading 42.5 PPG vs. Ole Miss' 40.25, even with 10% fewer possessions. Because you counted defensive points in your original stat. So, LSU is the better offense in every single possible measurement, even the one you used...incorrectly..., which has been well established is heavily skewed by more OM possessions to begin with.
Also can you give me what stats are currently acceptable
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