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The Orgeron "experiment"
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:02 pm
Why do some refer to this as "an experiment?" Because ideally, you want your head coach to be a guru/expert on one side of the ball, the idea being, he can then hire a guru/expert for the other side of the ball. This philosophy perhaps emphasizes "x's and o's" brain matter over people skills (recruiting; motivating players.)
Here are some things (I'll say they're facts; if you disagree they're facts, tell me why) that gnaw at me about Mr. Ed: when Les Miles hired him to be the defensive line coach, he was out of coaching. He was hired at the same time as Kevin Steele, who was brought in as coordinator. (Generally speaking, coordinators are thought of as smarter, more talented, than position coaches.)
When Steele left, Orgeron was not promoted to coordinator. Aranda was hired.
So, number one, why was it seemingly ordained that Orgeron just HAD to be the interim HC, when Miles was fired? Yes, he had been an interim HC for USC in the past. He had been a very unsuccessful HC at Old Mrs.
Some people will believe the myth. "LSU man." Orgeron isn't an "LSU man." Didn't play there, hadn't coached there. True, he's from South Louisiana, and exudes Cajun-ness. But the media latched onto the myth, and so, if LSU had not of hired O as the permanent HC, well, LSU was just being meanies!
The mistake was made when O, and not Aranda, was named interim HC. The mistake was compounded by letting Joe Alleva once again absolutely, horribly BOTCH a second coaching search.
What gnaws at me ... did O actually work covertly to sabotage Miles, with the goal of taking over himself? (That's not a "fact," that's a suspicion, and a question.) He sure seemed awfully ready to go when he got the call to be interim HC.
Look, he's the coach. I don't root against him. I root for the Tigers to win, always, so, I root for him. I like him. He's done OK. I think he's recruited well. But I honestly don't know what his ceiling is. Has he already reached it? The A&M and ND losses are similar: playing not to lose. He replaced Canada (whom he admitted he believed was a mistake to hire) with a guy (great guy, an "LSU man") who hadn't coordinated in over TWO DECADES. It shows.
All of that said, I hope: (a) LSU gets the best possible bowl game, and wins; (b) signs a great class; (c) has a successful spring and fall camp, and (d) wins the NC next year. I do not root against the Tigers, nor Ed Orgeron. But the doubts, well, they're nagging.
Here are some things (I'll say they're facts; if you disagree they're facts, tell me why) that gnaw at me about Mr. Ed: when Les Miles hired him to be the defensive line coach, he was out of coaching. He was hired at the same time as Kevin Steele, who was brought in as coordinator. (Generally speaking, coordinators are thought of as smarter, more talented, than position coaches.)
When Steele left, Orgeron was not promoted to coordinator. Aranda was hired.
So, number one, why was it seemingly ordained that Orgeron just HAD to be the interim HC, when Miles was fired? Yes, he had been an interim HC for USC in the past. He had been a very unsuccessful HC at Old Mrs.
Some people will believe the myth. "LSU man." Orgeron isn't an "LSU man." Didn't play there, hadn't coached there. True, he's from South Louisiana, and exudes Cajun-ness. But the media latched onto the myth, and so, if LSU had not of hired O as the permanent HC, well, LSU was just being meanies!
The mistake was made when O, and not Aranda, was named interim HC. The mistake was compounded by letting Joe Alleva once again absolutely, horribly BOTCH a second coaching search.
What gnaws at me ... did O actually work covertly to sabotage Miles, with the goal of taking over himself? (That's not a "fact," that's a suspicion, and a question.) He sure seemed awfully ready to go when he got the call to be interim HC.
Look, he's the coach. I don't root against him. I root for the Tigers to win, always, so, I root for him. I like him. He's done OK. I think he's recruited well. But I honestly don't know what his ceiling is. Has he already reached it? The A&M and ND losses are similar: playing not to lose. He replaced Canada (whom he admitted he believed was a mistake to hire) with a guy (great guy, an "LSU man") who hadn't coordinated in over TWO DECADES. It shows.
All of that said, I hope: (a) LSU gets the best possible bowl game, and wins; (b) signs a great class; (c) has a successful spring and fall camp, and (d) wins the NC next year. I do not root against the Tigers, nor Ed Orgeron. But the doubts, well, they're nagging.
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 3:03 pm
12
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:04 pm to TigerJeff
Most of the time the interim is a rah rah guy and you hope the coordinators can pull their half of the ball together without additional responsibility.
O had HCing experience and interim experience. Aranda hand even been with the program a year, and Cam was on his way out with Les.
O had HCing experience and interim experience. Aranda hand even been with the program a year, and Cam was on his way out with Les.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:04 pm to TigerJeff
quote:
The mistake was made when O, and not Aranda, was named interim HC
It wasn't a mistake. O has been doing a good job.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:07 pm to bencoleman
He’s doing an OK job.
Offense is trash
Defense isn’t elite
Recruiting has been ok and really good this year.
We’ve had so many games where we won on pure talent alone. Looked unmotivated. Played sloppy.
So I have To wonder what exactly is he doing well consistently?
Offense is trash
Defense isn’t elite
Recruiting has been ok and really good this year.
We’ve had so many games where we won on pure talent alone. Looked unmotivated. Played sloppy.
So I have To wonder what exactly is he doing well consistently?
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:09 pm to bencoleman
quote:
It wasn't a mistake. O has been doing a good job.
In what way is the program better off now than if Les Miles had never been fired?
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:11 pm to TigerJeff
quote:
Why do some refer to this as "an experiment?" Because ideally, you want your head coach to be a guru/expert on one side of the ball, the idea being, he can then hire a guru/expert for the other side of the ball. This philosophy perhaps emphasizes "x's and o's" brain matter over people skills (recruiting; motivating players.)
The experiment isn't even THAT specific. The experiment was placing a Tier 1 football program on the back of a spectacular failure of a head coach. The experiment was focusing on coordinators and "letting coaches coach," and someone who had gritty football experience and could recruit and motivate well, well letting real coaches do their jobs unhinged and unguided.
The experimental vision was that of having no vision, when you really think about it.
quote:
Here are some things (I'll say they're facts; if you disagree they're facts, tell me why) that gnaw at me about Mr. Ed: when Les Miles hired him to be the defensive line coach, he was out of coaching. He was hired at the same time as Kevin Steele, who was brought in as coordinator. (Generally speaking, coordinators are thought of as smarter, more talented, than position coaches.)
When Steele left, Orgeron was not promoted to coordinator. Aranda was hired.
So, number one, why was it seemingly ordained that Orgeron just HAD to be the interim HC, when Miles was fired? Yes, he had been an interim HC for USC in the past. He had been a very unsuccessful HC at Old Mrs.
Yup. He was just the most tenured coach in the best sort of position to take over. Then he proceeded to make it look like he was fixing the offense...and that was his offer.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:11 pm to bencoleman
quote:
It wasn't a mistake. O has been doing a good job.
He just finished with a worse SEC record than last year....
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:12 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
He just finished with a worse SEC record than last year....
In a year when basically everyone said LSU would be 7-5
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:15 pm to TigerJeff
Let's not overthink this. He was a 3rd or 4th or even 5th choice, and was hired to follow the Les Miles template that won so many games here, with the idea that you clean up the game management problems that doomed Miles. That template being recruit well, hire good coordinators, & be a figurehead in the community.
this is ridiculous even for rant standards
quote:
What gnaws at me ... did O actually work covertly to sabotage Miles, with the goal of taking over himself? (That's not a "fact," that's a suspicion, and a question.) He sure seemed awfully ready to go when he got the call to be interim HC.
this is ridiculous even for rant standards
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:16 pm to SammyTiger
well they were picked to go 6-6 this season and instead we are 9-3! if we don't get screwed against A&M we would be 10-2. do you see it yet!
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:17 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
He’s doing an OK job.
But you say this:
quote:
We’ve had so many games where we won on pure talent alone.
quote:
Looked unmotivated. Played sloppy
quote:
Offense is trash
Defense isn’t elite
quote:
Recruiting has been ok
All of that pretty much says he's not doing an ok job. Below average at a place like LSU.
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:17 pm to TigerJeff
When you hire a guy, that is going to hire the best guru/expert coordinators and for him to get out of the way, you don't have the right head coach! He is a glorified cheerleader! I agree with everything you posted.
I was against his hire, but do not root against him, I want LSU to win! But if you think LSU is going to start competing for the sec West, win the SEC, make CFP you are fooling yourself. If he does not make the hard decisions and focus on fixing the offense, this is his ceiling.
People who are advocating his extension/raise are the reason LSU is in this position. Fired a coach for this exact type of season, yet it's a win for CEO.
I was against his hire, but do not root against him, I want LSU to win! But if you think LSU is going to start competing for the sec West, win the SEC, make CFP you are fooling yourself. If he does not make the hard decisions and focus on fixing the offense, this is his ceiling.
People who are advocating his extension/raise are the reason LSU is in this position. Fired a coach for this exact type of season, yet it's a win for CEO.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:18 pm to bencoleman
quote:
O has been doing a good job.
Les did a better job and we fired him.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:18 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
n what way is the program better off now than if Les Miles had never been fired?
I am someone that had wanted Miles replaced, hated the O hire and the E "elevation". I will say that things seem to run more efficiently in-game. There seems to be a lot less confusion, delay of game penalties, etc. Last year's class had definitely slipped compared to Miles' as we saw a greater preponderance of 3 stars than we are used to seeing.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:20 pm to LSU Groupee
quote:
Les did a better job and we fired him.
you don't really think that at the end of Les Miles' tenure, he was doing a better job than this, do you?
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:21 pm to Lester Earl
As I said, a question. Would hope it's not true. But it wouldn't shock me if it was.
"3rd, 4th, 5th choice." The search was a joke. Alleva ("I Am the Search") is a joke.
A person who knows what they're doing as athletic director has a rollodex of phone #s on his desk. Agents. Moles in other programs, conference office. A good AD has connections, keeps informed, knows who might be interested in changing jobs. He knows the latest hot names in the NFL coaching circles.
What he doesn't do is get played by Tom Herman and his agent, get his little feelings hurt, and hire Orgeron as a knee-jerk reaction.
LSU fired its most successful coach in history to promote the defensive line coach to HC, who then promoted the tight end coach to be OC. I wish both the best. But that's what happened.
"3rd, 4th, 5th choice." The search was a joke. Alleva ("I Am the Search") is a joke.
A person who knows what they're doing as athletic director has a rollodex of phone #s on his desk. Agents. Moles in other programs, conference office. A good AD has connections, keeps informed, knows who might be interested in changing jobs. He knows the latest hot names in the NFL coaching circles.
What he doesn't do is get played by Tom Herman and his agent, get his little feelings hurt, and hire Orgeron as a knee-jerk reaction.
LSU fired its most successful coach in history to promote the defensive line coach to HC, who then promoted the tight end coach to be OC. I wish both the best. But that's what happened.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:26 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
He was a 3rd or 4th or even 5th choice,
Who were 3,4,5 ahead of Ed?
quote:
Les Miles template that won so many games here, with the idea that you clean up the game management problems
Miles problem was interfering with in game play calling. Cam called a play and miles would have to approve, why LSU could not get in rhythm and had plenty of delay of game penalties.
quote:
That template being recruit well, hire good coordinators, & be a figurehead in the community
Which means you have no Head Coach/President/CEO of your program.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:26 pm to countrytiger60
You can’t just a season in preseason projections
Auburn, Miami and Miss State are all way worse than people said they would be.
Auburn, Miami and Miss State are all way worse than people said they would be.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:28 pm to keeper05
quote:
am someone that had wanted Miles replaced, hated the O hire and the E "elevation". I will say that things seem to run more efficiently in-game. There seems to be a lot less confusion, delay of game penalties, etc. Last year's class had definitely slipped compared to Miles' as we saw a greater preponderance of 3 stars than we are used to seeing.
There is no question things run more smoothly in game.
And despite what people say about Steve, this version of the offense is infinitely more multiple than what we had under Miles. There is actual unpredictability with our passing downs.
Of course we can improve. We need better depth on both sides. O needs to win on the recruiting front now solidify the holes on both LOS.
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:28 pm to SG_Geaux
They only said we are going 7-5 because of our head coach, not because of talent. We fired a coach for not winning 10 games. I don't care what the media thinks, standard is 10 games. And here we are with 9.
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