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re: The O line is simply not good
Posted on 11/19/18 at 3:44 pm to Bleeding purple
Posted on 11/19/18 at 3:44 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:Then we need to find said OC.
Sure every team in the nation could do better with a better OC.
quote:Are you aware of the criticism regarding SE's scheme?
I'm not sure a different OC will necessarily be better though, especially in the areas we need him to be. I think to fully answer that question we need to see the OC have a chance to work with a good and healthy O line. Certainly, E has some short comings just like every other coach in the nation.
And you didn't really answer the question.
Is there an OC available to us that could come in with this current team and have better overall results in regards to our offensive numbers? It's a yes or no answer.
If your answer is no, then we can pretty much end our discussions. We just are not going to agree.
If the answer is yes, then we need to try and get said OC.
/thread
This post was edited on 11/19/18 at 3:48 pm
1
Posted on 11/19/18 at 3:47 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:Would that include the OC?
I can not disagree that we need some offensive coaching improvements.
quote:Then you pretty much disagree with the guy O wants to come in and help.
I don't think running a more modern concept is a need.
quote:Do we need an OC to help in this aspect?
and play to their strengths.
This post was edited on 11/19/18 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:05 pm to TigerJeff
quote:
in general, is not logical. It's nonsense
What's not nonsense is the offensive line is terrible. Hopefully they can pull it all together one more time and get this game from aTm.
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:08 pm to bencoleman
How can that be? A/c to the OP, all is lost, nothing can possibly work, b/c the oline isn't good. It will take a miracle to beat A&M. We have a bunch of underdeveloped, 230 lb olinemen who can't lift weights, are terrible, should never have been given scholarships (despite most being 4 star recruits.)
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:14 pm to TigerJeff
quote:If this is actually true, there are more issues than just the OC...
How can that be? A/c to the OP, all is lost, nothing can possibly work, b/c the oline isn't good. It will take a miracle to beat A&M. We have a bunch of underdeveloped, 230 lb olinemen who can't lift weights, are terrible, should never have been given scholarships (despite most being 4 star recruits.)
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:26 pm to abellsujr
I believe most of that was sarcasm....
I just don’t think LA is a hot bed of o line talent....
I know people won’t like the BAMA reference but, the state of Alabama isn’t either....
Two of BAMA’s best O linemen are from out of state...
I think LSU should do the same....go get some strong O linemen, that can learn schemes quickly......
I just don’t think LA is a hot bed of o line talent....
I know people won’t like the BAMA reference but, the state of Alabama isn’t either....
Two of BAMA’s best O linemen are from out of state...
I think LSU should do the same....go get some strong O linemen, that can learn schemes quickly......
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:28 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Certainly, E has some short comings just like every other coach in the nation.
Would you agree that one of his 'shortcomings' is that he has engineered 0 points in two games against the gumps? The Citadel did better in one half of football. How do you explain that?
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:34 pm to Robbytiger
quote:Oh, I completely agree.
I think LSU should do the same....go get some strong O linemen, that can learn schemes quickly......
But you guys are still skating around the question. I'm not sure why.
Would the offensive numbers improve with the current team we have with a better OC? Say Hugh Freeze or Lane Kiffin?
This post was edited on 11/19/18 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:40 pm to abellsujr
I answered your question (and didn't skate around shite)
yes, every team could do better with a better OC
Your follow up question
I have no idea who is available or who the school could pay to get
It is not a yes or no answer unless you have a crystal ball.
I can definitively tell you if we had the exact same linemen, the exact same injuries, and the exact same execution on the line as we did this year in the same games that I believe there is no OC that would have increased production.
I don't think putting lipstick on a pig makes it attractive either.
Now will you explain your reasoning on the screen plays please? I truly want to know if I am missing something in the technique execution.
quote:
whether or not LSU can do better with a better OC
yes, every team could do better with a better OC
Your follow up question
quote:
Is there an OC available to us
I have no idea who is available or who the school could pay to get
quote:Possibly especially considering the current team will not be next years team. The current line will not be next years line.
that could come in with this current team and have better overall results in regards to our offensive numbers?
It is not a yes or no answer unless you have a crystal ball.
I can definitively tell you if we had the exact same linemen, the exact same injuries, and the exact same execution on the line as we did this year in the same games that I believe there is no OC that would have increased production.
I don't think putting lipstick on a pig makes it attractive either.
Now will you explain your reasoning on the screen plays please? I truly want to know if I am missing something in the technique execution.
This post was edited on 11/19/18 at 4:42 pm
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:51 pm to TigerJeff
quote:
How can that be? A/c to the OP, all is lost, nothing can possibly work, b/c the oline isn't good. It will take a miracle to beat A&M. We have a bunch of underdeveloped, 230 lb olinemen who can't lift weights, are terrible, should never have been given scholarships (despite most being 4 star recruits.
So you're arguing that the offensive line is actually good and what we're seeing is not what we're seeing. Nevermind the missed blocking assignments, ignore all of the defensive players in the backfield, and what about the good QB that's getting banged up constantly. Yep that offensive line is overachieving.
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:55 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:I'm not telling you to give me a 100% guarantee. I'm asking in your opinion.
It is not a yes or no answer unless you have a crystal ball.
quote:OK
yes, every team could do better with a better OC
quote:How about some of the guys O has tried to get? Freeze or Kiffin? Or maybe some of the guys that people have suggested. Kendall Briles lets say (which some have said O wanted but was turned down by F King).
I have no idea who is available or who the school could pay to get
quote:I'm talking about THIS CURRENT TEAM AS IT IS TODAY.
Possibly especially considering the current team will not be next years team. The current line will not be next years line.
quote:So that's a no. Got it. We can pretty much end our discussions now.
I don't think putting lipstick on a pig makes it attractive either.
quote:We don't sell it. Teams see it a mile away. That goes for the oline, receivers, QB, RBs, etc. We don't have enough deception. And yes, as you said, that's on coaching. This was pointed out by Sean Salisbury.
Now will you explain your reasoning on the screen plays please? I truly want to know if I am missing something in the technique execution.
But hey, I'm just a random guy on the internet. I'm not sure why you're so interested in my opinion about it. That's on SE to coach. He's not doing it right.
You know it's not just on the OC to implement scheme (even though it's been said that SE's scheme is ancient), it's also his job to make sure that the offense is cohesive. He's failing. We've had a couple of good games, but the overall numbers say a lot. And you have already pointed out that the oline is a complete fricking shite canned disaster. That's also on the OC my man.
This post was edited on 11/19/18 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 11/19/18 at 4:57 pm to TigerJeff
quote:
A/c to the OP, all is lost (never said this), nothing can possibly work (never said this), b/c the oline isn't good (yep). It will take a miracle to beat A&M. (never said this) We have a bunch of underdeveloped (never said this), 230 lb olinemen (never said this) who can't lift weights (nor this), are terrible, should never have been given scholarships (never said this) (despite most being 4 star recruits.)
And you continue to misrepresent me.
LSU, Coach O, Coach E, and the players have done a great job of being competitive the entire season. The D is certainly the strong point of the team. The ST have been exactly that SPECIAL. The O has had moments of greatness when everything fell just right especially against lesser opponents. They have shown the tenacity to keep clawing out a win despite poor line play. The coaches have attempted to shuffle players to cover shortages and injuries, to improve matchups, to gain enough control to let the skills players make yardage.
I think the TAM game will be a close game. I think our D will dominate and if the coaches can figure out how to give Joe a little time in the pocket with a depleted underperforming O line against the 5th strongest sack defense we face this season we will win by 7 to 14. I expect to see more over the middle passes to #18, and some HB screen passes also.
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:05 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
nothing can possibly work (never said this),
It literally doesn't matter what scheme we run, it will be largely unsuccessful because our offensive line is not good
Direct quote.
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:12 pm to Bleeding purple
"The O line is simply not good."
OK, why?
1. the O-line coach is not good. (Orgeron hired him.)
2. They aren't properly physically trained. (Orgeron has retained Moffett for 2 yrs.)
3. They don't know proper technique. (Orgeron has been head coach for two years; why don't they know proper technique?)
4. Miles left the cupboard bare. (I agree to an extent, but, the current LSU o line has 4-stars, some 3-stars; Orgeron signed two JUCO linemen; by all accounts Lewis has been OK, and Traore has not. Traore BTW was the #1 rated o-linemen coming out of JUCO.)
5. What else ya got?
6. What is more logical to assume: LSU over the past decade has just had bad luck recruiting good O-linemen, QBs, WRs, TE's, (while at the same time recruiting good defensive players), OR, the LSU offensive scheme (play design) is outdated and puts the players in poor positions and doesn't give them the best opportunity for success?
7. You know line play, so you know leverage is everything, getting to the spot first is paramount, getting the jump on your opponent all important ... if the opponent knows where you're going, HE can get the jump on YOU. Might that not affect the quality of your play?
OK, why?
1. the O-line coach is not good. (Orgeron hired him.)
2. They aren't properly physically trained. (Orgeron has retained Moffett for 2 yrs.)
3. They don't know proper technique. (Orgeron has been head coach for two years; why don't they know proper technique?)
4. Miles left the cupboard bare. (I agree to an extent, but, the current LSU o line has 4-stars, some 3-stars; Orgeron signed two JUCO linemen; by all accounts Lewis has been OK, and Traore has not. Traore BTW was the #1 rated o-linemen coming out of JUCO.)
5. What else ya got?
6. What is more logical to assume: LSU over the past decade has just had bad luck recruiting good O-linemen, QBs, WRs, TE's, (while at the same time recruiting good defensive players), OR, the LSU offensive scheme (play design) is outdated and puts the players in poor positions and doesn't give them the best opportunity for success?
7. You know line play, so you know leverage is everything, getting to the spot first is paramount, getting the jump on your opponent all important ... if the opponent knows where you're going, HE can get the jump on YOU. Might that not affect the quality of your play?
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:12 pm to abellsujr
Ever been in boat with a malfunctioning motor and a functioning trolling motor?
You may not win any races getting to shore but you will get there if you use the TM. It really does not matter who operates that TM either, it has its inherent limitations. surely someone driving in circle would be a detriment but I believe Coach E is driving this boat to shore as expediently as possible with what he has to work with.
Your logic is a bit different than Jeff's and it has it's merit. Changing out multiple assistants and position coaches may be the ticket to improved production next year.
Jeffs logic is akin to a top 5 Nascar team changing out drivers mid race after Team B's driver pushes you into a wall and breaks the front axle and rips off a wheel. All the cars started with the same highly desired equipment (some with cheaper stuff) and most teams have lower ranking cars so there is not a problem with the car it must be the driver. the other lower rated teams are farther ahead in the race with lesser equipment!!! Change the driver and we can win the race with the busted car. Just refuse to believe the busted care might be the issue. It can't be it doesn't compute.
Get a new driver, a new more aggressive DRIVER!!!!
DRIVER!!!!!!!!!! DRIVER!!!!!!!!!
You may not win any races getting to shore but you will get there if you use the TM. It really does not matter who operates that TM either, it has its inherent limitations. surely someone driving in circle would be a detriment but I believe Coach E is driving this boat to shore as expediently as possible with what he has to work with.
Your logic is a bit different than Jeff's and it has it's merit. Changing out multiple assistants and position coaches may be the ticket to improved production next year.
Jeffs logic is akin to a top 5 Nascar team changing out drivers mid race after Team B's driver pushes you into a wall and breaks the front axle and rips off a wheel. All the cars started with the same highly desired equipment (some with cheaper stuff) and most teams have lower ranking cars so there is not a problem with the car it must be the driver. the other lower rated teams are farther ahead in the race with lesser equipment!!! Change the driver and we can win the race with the busted car. Just refuse to believe the busted care might be the issue. It can't be it doesn't compute.
Get a new driver, a new more aggressive DRIVER!!!!
DRIVER!!!!!!!!!! DRIVER!!!!!!!!!
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:15 pm to Bleeding purple
Have you ever watched an old person drive a fully functional car?
They can get from point A to point B most of the time but it’s always a terrifying experience they’re also eventually going run stop signs and T bone something.
That’s more of our offense.
Maybe we don’t have a Ferrari but the fricking car works.
They can get from point A to point B most of the time but it’s always a terrifying experience they’re also eventually going run stop signs and T bone something.
That’s more of our offense.
Maybe we don’t have a Ferrari but the fricking car works.
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:18 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
They can get from point A to point B most of the time but it’s always a terrifying experience they’re also eventually going run stop signs and T bone something.
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:18 pm to TigerJeff
And those are not the same sentences. It is sad you don't see the differences.
I keep asking you what scheme will work. You are the one screaming that a new scheme will fix it. that the problem is the scheme.
What scheme?
We are all still waiting.
I keep asking you what scheme will work. You are the one screaming that a new scheme will fix it. that the problem is the scheme.
What scheme?
We are all still waiting.
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:20 pm to SammyTiger
If you believe our "car" is fully functional you are delusional.
If you believe a generic working car beats a Ferrari in a competition you are even more delusional.
This was funny though
If you believe a generic working car beats a Ferrari in a competition you are even more delusional.
This was funny though
quote:even if it doesn't apply well
They can get from point A to point B most of the time but it’s always a terrifying experience they’re also eventually going run stop signs and T bone something.
This post was edited on 11/19/18 at 5:27 pm
Posted on 11/19/18 at 5:27 pm to Bleeding purple
If you believe we the driver doesn’t matter you’re delusional.
I am Going to be so excited when after 3 years of O recruiting, and 2 years with his chosen OC we can jump all the way into the 70s in offense. Wooooooooweeeeeee
How many coaches out there do you think have a floor of 104 and a ceiling in the top 25 in offense?
I am Going to be so excited when after 3 years of O recruiting, and 2 years with his chosen OC we can jump all the way into the 70s in offense. Wooooooooweeeeeee
How many coaches out there do you think have a floor of 104 and a ceiling in the top 25 in offense?
This post was edited on 11/19/18 at 5:31 pm
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