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Message
re: The next 6 basketball games will tell us where this thing’s really headed
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:10 am to Open Your Eyes
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:10 am to Open Your Eyes
Way to pull one statement out of context and completely ignore the rest of what I said.
1
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:13 am to MikeTheTiger71
The rest of what you said is just “laying the foundation”, as you put it, for accepting the mediocrity you clearly desire.
There is no context for 1-6 in year 3 of a tenure to be considered “progress”
There is no context for 1-6 in year 3 of a tenure to be considered “progress”
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:15 am to MikeTheTiger71
quote:Wouldn't 2-16, 9-9 and 1-6 also fit your definition of inconsistency? Or does it only apply to coaches that have shown glimpses that they can actually succeed in the SEC?
No, I’m talking about the pattern of inconsistency he has established. That’s what feast or famine means.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:21 am to Open Your Eyes
quote:His sustainable program idea would be great if we didn't have constant roster turnover like every other team in the nation.
The rest of what you said is just “laying the foundation”, as you put it, for accepting the mediocrity you clearly desire.
There is no context for 1-6 in year 3 of a tenure to be considered “progress”
The Brady roller-coaster was frustrating as hell, but at least he had success at times.
His example, Gates going 11-7 NCAAT, 0-18, 5-2 and being better than LSU fans expected (his initial argument) doesn't really bolster CoachMc like he thinks it does.
We'd gladly take NCAAT, crash and burn season, NCAAT, because we're basically crash and burn, mediocre NIT season, crash and burn - with no light showing at the end of the tunnel.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:23 am to Open Your Eyes
quote:
The rest of what you said is just “laying the foundation”, as you put it, for accepting the mediocrity you clearly desire.
I also said multiple times that he hasn’t proven he can do that.
quote:
There is no context for 1-6 in year 3 of a tenure to be considered “progress”
Did you miss the part where I said the next 6 games will tell us more about this team or what my expectations are for what they do in those games? When the schedule is that difficult, it tells you very little about the strength of a mediocre team, much the same as a weak schedule tells you nothing about the strength of a good team. The idea of “progress” is incremental improvement. It doesn’t suggest I’m willing to accept mediocrity in the long run. It suggests mediocrity this year would be an improvement over prior seasons. I don’t look at 1-6 and see improvement. I look at 1-6 and say I don’t know anything other than this team still isn’t a Top 30 team. They could be regressing or they could be a team capable of making a tournament run in a less brutal conference. At some point they have to catch up. The next 6 games will tell us better whether they are getting closer to that goal.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:30 am to MikeTheTiger71
quote:As in catch up to the mediocre teams?
At some point they have to catch up. The next 6 games will tell us better whether they are getting closer to that goal.
You seem to be coming from an angle that we're competing against ourselves. If the bar is worst in SEC like we were 2 years ago, then we aren't worst the next season, we've made progress. And because we're in a tough conference, we shouldn't judge ourselves against our opponents, because they are too good.
We're not going to stop playing in this conference. When the landscape of the game allows for quickly rebuilding a program and you're sitting wallowing only comparing yourself to your worst self, that's ridiculous.
Those other teams aren't going to stop being good so we can catch up.
And, yes the next 6 games aren't against the cream of the SEC crop, but the final 5 games are. If we can't judge ourselves against the top 10 teams in a 16 team SEC, then we're a lost cause.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:32 am to S
We already know where this is heading.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:37 am to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
The question is whether the program is making progress. The next 6 games will tell us more about that than the first 6 did. I know everyone wants a quick fix but I’d rather a sustainable foundation be laid. I’m not saying I believe McMahon has done that. I just don’t think the way the first 7 games of the conference schedule were laid out tell us one way or another. 4 of the first 6 on the road followed by the #1 team in the country and 6 Top 25 opponents is going to be tough on any team. It’s simultaneously possible to be 1-6 against that schedule and making progress as a program. Any NCAA tournament bubble team likely would be 2-5. If they can’t manage 3-3 over the next 6, that’s a different story.
I think those are all fair points. However, I'd say evaluating "progress" is so much different now than before because of the nature of the sport today with so much roster turnover. Success this year doesn't guarantee success next year. Likewise, failure this year doesn't prohibit great success next year. South Carolina and Missouri are good examples of this. The difference between those programs and LSU is they each have at least shown they can win (at least in one season) whereas McMahon and LSU haven't.
Fair or not, success requires a coach to win with one roster, significantly overhaul it for the next year, and do it again with a new roster. It's not easy by any means, but it is necessary. I just don't know if McMahon can operate in that space because (1) he hasn't, and (2) the same issues that have lost LSU games in the past are largely the same issues plaguing them again this year. I don't think McMahon is capable of fully adapting to to the strengths/weaknesses of each roster. I think he has one style of play he wants to employ and he's not changing it regardless of how well it might or might not fit his roster.
He also hasn't shown the ability to win away from home which is absolutely necessary if you want to be a great team. If he can't win at UGA or Arkansas in this stretch, you're likely looking at an 0-9 road record and a career SEC road record of 3-24. That's just not going to get you anywhere and would represent a regression.
Finally, the question has to be asked: Do you ever see the program getting to the heights of Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, even Florida now under McMahon? If the answer is no then why keep wasting time chasing mediocrity? Alabama, Auburn and Tennessee all had a less prestigious basketball pedigree than LSU...until they finally hit on the right HC. It wasn't like the schools decided "hey, we are going to go all in on basketball." There is NO reason whatsoever LSU couldn't get to that level. But it is going to take the right guy to do it. Obviously that is much easier said than done. But you don't stop trying (within reason) and you don't just lower expectations to accept mediocrity. If there is no belief McMahon can be the guy to potentially get you there it is time to move on.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 9:59 am to Alt26
It is past time to move on,Mcloser has shown no signs of progress! You watch the games and you can see the players have no clue what to do on offensive and defense, there's no help on defense,they don't protect the paint,and on offense the number one thing even middle school coaches know is to value the basketball protect it! However the last 3 years LSU has been close to leading the nation in turnovers, how is that progress,and the players look woefully unprepared and Mcloser needs to remember what Wooden said faily to prepare means preparing to lose! Which Mcloser has shown he is very skilled at losing,time to pack the bags and get a real coach in here pronto!
Posted on 1/31/25 at 10:02 am to drizztiger
quote:
Wouldn't 2-16, 9-9 and 1-6 also fit your definition of inconsistency? Or does it only apply to coaches that have shown glimpses that they can actually succeed in the SEC?
Did they play the majority of their games last year on the road or only 1 of the 8 bottom teams in the league? The conference is significantly better than they were last year and LSU has played the brutal part of that improved league mostly on the road. My expectations at this point are that they need to at least finish 6-12. That would be a step back, but not nearly the same as Missouri going 0-18. The losses of Reed and Ward clearly frustrated McMahon’s plans for this season. Long-term I’m not suggesting we keep making excuses and I’m not suggesting making excuses if they do worse than 6-12, but a slight step back under the circumstances can be understood if they move forward next year.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 10:08 am to drizztiger
quote:
As in catch up to the mediocre teams?
No, catch up to the teams in the Top 25.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 11:49 am to robertgamb
quote:
t is past time to move on,Mcloser has shown no signs of progress! You watch the games and you can see the players have no clue what to do on offensive and defense, there's no help on defense,they don't protect the paint,and on offense the number one thing even middle school coaches know is to value the basketball protect it! However the last 3 years LSU has been close to leading the nation in turnovers, how is that progress,and the players look woefully unprepared and Mcloser needs to remember what Wooden said faily to prepare means preparing to lose! Which Mcloser has shown he is very skilled at losing,time to pack the bags and get a real coach in here pronto!
If we are going to criticize where warranted you also have to give praise where warranted. LSU's defense this year hasn't been bad. Not elite, but certainly not bad. And MUCH improved from the previous two years. Even on Wednesday. But for two throwaway layups by Broome in the final minute LSU would have held Auburn under 40% shooting...which would have been Auburn's second worst FG% of in any game this year. To put that in context, Auburn is the nation's best offensive team (in terms of efficiency) and the only team that held them to a lower FG% was the nation's best defense, Tennessee. LSU also blocked the most shots vs. Auburn of any team this year. Where LSU got beat on the defensive end was defensive rebounding. They allowed Auburn to get a TON of second shots. That, plus LSU's 20 turnovers is the reason Auburn was able to win by 10+ despite shooting a lower FG% than LSU. Auburn attempted nearly 30 more shots than LSU!
Offense is a different story. It's a disaster and that falls squarely on McMahon. The general approach has always been bad (which is a big reason LSU has always turned the ball over a ton under him) and McMahon hasn't shown the ability to change his approach to fit the strengths of his players.
All of that kind of results in LSU simply finding different ways to lose because they seem to have a great ability to canceling out improvement in one area by struggling terribly in another. And that can fluctuate from game to game.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 11:52 am to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
It suggests mediocrity this year would be an improvement over prior seasons.
and
quote:
My expectations at this point are that they need to at least finish 6-12
Keep trying to convince people you’re not a fan of mediocrity. It’s hilarious.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 11:53 am to Alt26
The sad part is once again he hasn’t leaned into that identity. There are things you can do with a good set of defensive players to augment and supplement having a good defense but just like last season and the good 3point shooting he’s done nothing to build off of it.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 11:53 am to GeorgeWest
quote:it should be an instant firing as soon as the season is over if we go 1-17
We could easily finish 1-17 in the SEC.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 12:12 pm to Pelican fan99
It has to be the contract. Nobody wants to remember this but year 1 we were predicted to finish 8th in the SEC but registered the worst record in program history. People have given him a pass for this and it was year 1 so even though he vastly underachieved you’re not going to fire a 1st year coach. However that should’ve been a red flag and warning sign so if he has a record akin to that this season he should absolutely be fired. The only excuse you could make for not doing it would be the ridiculous contract but he’s not going to keep the job anyway so is it a valid excuse?
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 12:38 pm to Madking
quote:Every pundit, including coaches pegged LSU as a middle of the pack SEC team year 1. When we finished last in the league, that's when the twisting-of-truth and cherry picking excuses began. Through the first 2/3s of year 2, it looked like a continuation of year 1. OOC was horrid and we started 4-7 in the SEC. The glimmer of hope was the back to back wins over top 25 @USCe and top 25 UK. Then we one and done the SECT and get the NIT bid and crap the bed against UNT in the PMAC. Now this year, we're 1-6 in the SEC and teams we were thought to be able to beat - namely Vandy and @Mizz are both improved and beat us handily enough. But none of this is alarming to some. Amazing.
Nobody wants to remember this but year 1 we were predicted to finish 8th in the SEC but registered the worst record in program history.
quote:The only thing we save by not firing him after this season is paying 2 coaches simultaneously an extra year, because he's almost assuredly fired after next season - even the blowhards admit that. As I said earlier, it's similar to the CJJ Ben Simmons season. After that season, there was zero reason to keep him around, except just to keep him around. He was going to get fired the next season anyhow, and did just that after 2-16 in the SEC. It's sunk cost fallacy at it's finest, and if we repeat it under a different AD, we're just stupid.
The only excuse you could make for not doing it would be the ridiculous contract but he’s not going to keep the job anyway so is it a valid excuse?
Posted on 1/31/25 at 12:42 pm to drizztiger
To your first point he doesn’t know how to build a roster that fits him. Last year we had a lot of veteran offensive players who could shoot the ball and knew how to operate prior to coming here so you had these big individual games that carried us to some wins. This years team is athletic and he can’t adjust to what the roster does well so we’re back to a basement team even though the roster has more talent and depth which shows his incompetence.
Your second point is also correct, the savings you think you’re getting on the extra year are actually going out the door this and next season so you’re actually losing money.
Your second point is also correct, the savings you think you’re getting on the extra year are actually going out the door this and next season so you’re actually losing money.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 12:48 pm to Alt26
quote:
However, I'd say evaluating "progress" is so much different now than before because of the nature of the sport today with so much roster turnover. Success this year doesn't guarantee success next year. Likewise, failure this year doesn't prohibit great success next year.
McMahon is clearly trying to build in a sustainable way. I agree that might be a fool’s errand in the current environment and also agree he hasn’t proven he’s capable of doing so even if it is possible.
quote:
South Carolina and Missouri are good examples of this. The difference between those programs and LSU is they each have at least shown they can win (at least in one season) whereas McMahon and LSU haven't.
The question is whether those complaining about McMahon would be satisfied with the SC and Missouri model. I don’t think they would be and that’s not what McMahon is trying to do. From that perspective it’s comparing apples-to-oranges.
quote:
There is NO reason whatsoever LSU couldn't get to that level. But it is going to take the right guy to do it. Obviously that is much easier said than done. But you don't stop trying (within reason) and you don't just lower expectations to accept mediocrity. If there is no belief McMahon can be the guy to potentially get you there it is time to move on.
I would generally agree with this statement, but the question is when you can be sure that a coach can’t make it to next level and how much you are willing to spend on buyouts and new coaches’ salaries chasing after the “right” hire. More often than not, you aren’t going to find an Oates, a Pearl, or a Barnes. Buyouts add up pretty quickly if you fire coaches every 3 years. That also increases the price tag for the next coach if they feel a lack of security. I’m not saying hold onto mediocrity, but you may need to give it 4-5 years at a time before moving on or you only end up digging a deeper hole.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 12:51 pm to Open Your Eyes
quote:
Keep trying to convince people you’re not a fan of mediocrity. It’s hilarious.
What part of THIS YEAR do you not understand?
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