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The myth of JJ being a good recruiter
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:25 pm
Everyone always talks about how Johnny Jones is such a good recruiter, but the way I see it Hornsby, Mickey and Quarterman have been the only big time recruits that JJ actually got to come here.
As we all know, Simmons came here because of his godfather, David Patrick. Blakeney doesn't come if Simmons doesn't come.
Martin and Sampson are both from BR and therefore it's hard to give the coach credit for recruiting them when all they did was stay home. Victor also falls in this category.
Elbert Robinson and Josh Gray were both big time recruits coming in that have been busts.
Johnny O'Bryant obviously wasn't recruited by him and on top of that he ran Hickey out of town.
So when it's all said and done Coach Jones is really only responsible for Hornsby, Quarterman, Mickey, and Epps (Added to the list because I feel like his ceiling is very high).
Therefore, not only is our coach not very good at the coaching part, but when it's really broken down he isn't all that great of a recruiter either. If he can't win with this team, he can't win.
As we all know, Simmons came here because of his godfather, David Patrick. Blakeney doesn't come if Simmons doesn't come.
Martin and Sampson are both from BR and therefore it's hard to give the coach credit for recruiting them when all they did was stay home. Victor also falls in this category.
Elbert Robinson and Josh Gray were both big time recruits coming in that have been busts.
Johnny O'Bryant obviously wasn't recruited by him and on top of that he ran Hickey out of town.
So when it's all said and done Coach Jones is really only responsible for Hornsby, Quarterman, Mickey, and Epps (Added to the list because I feel like his ceiling is very high).
Therefore, not only is our coach not very good at the coaching part, but when it's really broken down he isn't all that great of a recruiter either. If he can't win with this team, he can't win.
9
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:32 pm to LucaBrasi504
Agree that he's not a great recruiter. He hired David Patrick, which got Ben Simmons, which got Blakeney.
I give him credit for Sampson and Martin.
We're Rico Gathers and Damion Jones away from being really good. I believe Gathers was Johnson, but Jones was JJ. He's also missing on other instate talent. Mitchell Robinson namely in the 2017 class.
I give him credit for Sampson and Martin.
We're Rico Gathers and Damion Jones away from being really good. I believe Gathers was Johnson, but Jones was JJ. He's also missing on other instate talent. Mitchell Robinson namely in the 2017 class.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:39 pm to LucaBrasi504
I 100% agree. LSU is not a school that is going to consistently draw in top talent. Every once in a while there's going to be some really strong talent in south LA that is going to put LSU in the running, but LSU needs a good coach, not a good recruiter. Hell, a decent coach could have LSU as a tournament team this year. No matter how well JJ recruits over the next couple years, he won't have a more talented team than he had this year, and look at the result.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:41 pm to UpToPar
Then the same goes for football?
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:45 pm to tuptiger
quote:
but Jones was JJ.
He was barely on the job when Jones committed to Vandy.
quote:
He's also missing on other instate talent. Mitchell Robinson namely in the 2017 class.
Everything points to Robinson being a AAU/shoe thing. Worked for us with Simmons and Blakeney worked against us with him.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:56 pm to doya2
quote:
Then the same goes for football?
No. LSU is a football school first and baseball second. Just because LSU draws top talent for baseball and football doesn't mean it's capable of drawing top talent consistently for basketball.
The same can be said about Duke and Kentucky with basketball.
LSU would have to devote a lot of money to consistently draw in top recruits, but even then basketball recruiting is a different animal than baseball and football. Most of the top talent for baseball and football comes from the south and is attracted to the SEC. Not so much for basketball.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:56 pm to UpToPar
quote:
No matter how well JJ recruits over the next couple years, he won't have a more talented team than he had this year, and look at the result.
this is it
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:57 pm to LucaBrasi504
quote:No. Not big time recruits. Robinson was always considered a major project and wouldn't amount to much for several years. There was always major concerns for Gray's selfishness and out of control style of play.
Elbert Robinson and Josh Gray were both big time recruits coming in that have been busts.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 2:57 pm to tuptiger
quote:
I give him credit for Sampson and Martin.
You have to remember Martin wanted to stay close to home and Sampson only came after Steve Lavin got fired at St.Johhns
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:04 pm to LucaBrasi504
quote:
Hornsby
was he a big recruit?
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:05 pm to LucaBrasi504
He got those players on campus, doesn't matter how. That's recruiting. Got to give him credit.
Problem is he can't coach a lick and he is on the verge of shitting the bed with his most talented team (that includes the no. 1 draft pick).
The success he's had in recruiting is about to come to an end. He will be a laughing stock if he can't make the tournament with Ben Simmons.
Problem is he can't coach a lick and he is on the verge of shitting the bed with his most talented team (that includes the no. 1 draft pick).
The success he's had in recruiting is about to come to an end. He will be a laughing stock if he can't make the tournament with Ben Simmons.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:24 pm to airfernando
Robinson had offers from Kansas and other big time programs, and yes he was always meant to be a project, but that being said he is no where near being able to get serious PT.
Josh Gray was arguably the best player coming out of JUCO that year regardless of what people were saying about his selfishness. Go look back at articles from right after we signed him that were saying that he could potentially be a one and done to the NBA.
IMO both of these two players fall under the category of big time recruits at the time of their recruitment.
Josh Gray was arguably the best player coming out of JUCO that year regardless of what people were saying about his selfishness. Go look back at articles from right after we signed him that were saying that he could potentially be a one and done to the NBA.
IMO both of these two players fall under the category of big time recruits at the time of their recruitment.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:26 pm to BasilBogomil
Id love to see what this team would do with a fiery coach, like bruce pearl or avery johnson (yes i did name two coaches with great resumes) but they are prime examples of a coach that would not let a performance like saturday slide and say "I am absolutely satisfied" when asked about team performance after the fact.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:30 pm to white_mj
Exactly, and it's not like those schools have a long basketball history that we can't compete with to attract top level coaching.
I also find it ironic that A&M, Florida, and Alabama all have head coaches that are from the New Orleans metro area.
I also find it ironic that A&M, Florida, and Alabama all have head coaches that are from the New Orleans metro area.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:30 pm to LucaBrasi504
I'm far from Jones' biggest fan, this is ridiculous. He's not a good recruiter because he, for the most part, got good players to stay home?
Yes, Simmons doesn't even consider LSU without Patrick on staff. However, the others could have gone ANYWHERE, regardless of where they were from, yet they chose to come to a school who had little success in the 5 years prior to their arrival.
Martin was a Parade All American. He could have gone to any of the top schools in the country, including Louisville who recruited him hard and was the defending National Champion. Yet Jones convinced him to stay home and play for a program who hadn't even had a winning SEC record in 4 years.
Blakeney came to LSU probably in large part because of his relationship with Simmons. Still, he was an out-of-state kid that could have gone ANYWHERE in the country. He chose LSU.
Sampson was highly recruited. Yes he backed out on St. John's because they lost their HC, but he still could have gone to several other bigger "basketball" schools rather than LSU. Even then, he chose to come to LSU knowing full well that there was a McDonald's All American (Blakeney) and a productive senior (Hornsby) in front of him. Someone had to convince him that LSU was the right place for him.
Victor was a top-40 player coming out of HS. Even when he decided to leave AZ, you don't think other big time programs wouldn't have loved to have him?
His recruiting efforts get penalized just because he happened to be the HC at a time when Louisiana produced some really good players? What was he supposed to do, just say the hell with the Louisiana players and try to bring in out-of-state kids? The previous HC couldn't reel in Louisiana's best, so to imply that LSU just recruits itself with regards to Louisiana players is asinine. Otherwise (like another poster said) Les Miles should be considered just a mediocre recruiter. At least the football program has a now long winning tradition to appeal to prospective players. LSU's basketball program really hasn't done anything of note since 2009, yet he's brought in at least 3 guys (possibly more) who will be future pros.
I don't stand on my pedestal often to defend Jones, but he deserves credit for increasing the talent-level at LSU after 4 years of Johnson depleting it.
Yes, Simmons doesn't even consider LSU without Patrick on staff. However, the others could have gone ANYWHERE, regardless of where they were from, yet they chose to come to a school who had little success in the 5 years prior to their arrival.
Martin was a Parade All American. He could have gone to any of the top schools in the country, including Louisville who recruited him hard and was the defending National Champion. Yet Jones convinced him to stay home and play for a program who hadn't even had a winning SEC record in 4 years.
Blakeney came to LSU probably in large part because of his relationship with Simmons. Still, he was an out-of-state kid that could have gone ANYWHERE in the country. He chose LSU.
Sampson was highly recruited. Yes he backed out on St. John's because they lost their HC, but he still could have gone to several other bigger "basketball" schools rather than LSU. Even then, he chose to come to LSU knowing full well that there was a McDonald's All American (Blakeney) and a productive senior (Hornsby) in front of him. Someone had to convince him that LSU was the right place for him.
Victor was a top-40 player coming out of HS. Even when he decided to leave AZ, you don't think other big time programs wouldn't have loved to have him?
His recruiting efforts get penalized just because he happened to be the HC at a time when Louisiana produced some really good players? What was he supposed to do, just say the hell with the Louisiana players and try to bring in out-of-state kids? The previous HC couldn't reel in Louisiana's best, so to imply that LSU just recruits itself with regards to Louisiana players is asinine. Otherwise (like another poster said) Les Miles should be considered just a mediocre recruiter. At least the football program has a now long winning tradition to appeal to prospective players. LSU's basketball program really hasn't done anything of note since 2009, yet he's brought in at least 3 guys (possibly more) who will be future pros.
I don't stand on my pedestal often to defend Jones, but he deserves credit for increasing the talent-level at LSU after 4 years of Johnson depleting it.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:38 pm to Alt26
I never said he should be penalized for keeping the players in state, but I don't think that it was some great recruiting feat by any means. Also, 3 of the arguments that you make almost further prove my point, being that Victor and Sampson's signings both amount to nothing more than a stroke of luck, and that Blakeney doesn't come without Simmons, period.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 3:53 pm to KG5989
My point was that basketball recruiting is very much nation wide, whereas most of the baseball and football talent comes from the south. Sure the south produces some good basketball players, but the northeast produces a ton as well. The best athletes in the northeast grow up playing basketball first. That's just how it is.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 4:34 pm to LucaBrasi504
never understand why they wasted a year for robinson last year
he needed to redshirt badly
he needed to redshirt badly
Posted on 2/22/16 at 4:46 pm to LSUMJ
I'm not a jones fan either, but to say he can't recruit is absurd. You say Simmons wouldn't be here without Patrick, well who the hell do you think hired patrick? And in the modern era of recruiting, it ain't easy keeping big time athletes home. Especially in basketball.
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