re: The legacy of Lee and Les and how they're intertwined

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yep, give me the stats over the last 3 years, after each had a year in the offense, and i bet we see a disparity. JJ's turnovers compared to Lee's the last 3 years would be fun.

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Both had times where they played well, but neither were a complete QB. IMO, Lee would have probably been my starter while JJ would have been the change of pace guy. There were definite times when both were needed though. I don't think either was a bad QB, unlike some folks.

JJ was one of the worst QB's at making timely decisions and accurate throws that I have seen in 40 years of observing football. He even had difficulty putting swing passes where they should have been, much less short crossing routes and on up the chain. Receivers, more often than not, had to stop, reach low or behind them to get their hands on a majority of throws and many more were simply incomplete. Most inconsistent starting QB with, what, 30 starts I have ever seen that retained his position, he just didn't possess the aptitude nor attributes of an above average major program QB. If he wasn't at QB he might could have played safety, other than that I would not envision him seeing the field other than possibly special teams.

Andrew Hatch??? I mean he was the starting QB in 2008. LSU needs two legitimate QB's with skill to get through most seasons due to injury, one is not the answer.

People can natter on about JL/JJ all they want, if either were truly good we wouldn't all be beating a dead horse. Bama D player comments regarding that they wanted to make JJ beat Bama with his arm is all you need to know, and they weren't concerned with JL, either.

I think alot of support Lee got came from his overcoming his past on the field. Most fans before the Oregon game were worried about having Lee under center. Questions were could LSU survive with Lee and how this will affect LSU's potential for the season. When came out and played well fans were surprised and ecstatic that there was a QB that has improved since his freshman year. After watching the same inconsistent offense do the same things and little improvement at QB, but some say regression. Lee epitomized what fans had wanted to see from JJ, mastering his craft and improvement as a QB.

When they got it from Lee and were winning and then Miles started inserting JJ with the same old tired play style and no improvement the fans could see this coming a mile away. You always hoped that it wouldn't happen or even be such a colossal failure on the big stage but it was always there. When fans noticed that JJ stayed in despite mistakes and the improved Lee got benched after one then the tide really turned. After the Ark game, and seniors last game, Lee got to kneel at the end, yet when questioned about this Miles said it was JJ's last game in Tiger Stadium in that uniform. Well it was Lee's too and no acknowledgement made him seem more kicked to the curb than ever and fans felt for him. One first down against GA and 28 total first half yards, still no Lee. Fans could see the stubbornness and arrogance of Miles in the JJ and Lee debate. Didn't like it.

Once the NCG happened it opened the floodgates for criticism and the "I told you sos" and the "I knew it" crowd. Miles brought it on himself, there were warnings all along people felt Lee was getting shafted and that his improvement and hard work didn't matter. Perception was that JJ had the golden ticket and the improvement exhibited by Lee was ignored and trifled. People related and sympathized with Lee and every slight, real or imagined by Miles to him was felt and resented by many.

My 2 cents anyway, blow it up if you want.

I agree stats don't tell the whole story, but this is true for any QB. It's still pretty obvious to most people that Lee improved quite a bit from 2008 and in fact was very capable of playing within this offense for the most part.

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Most people believe he improved.

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Well, most people also thought Tim Tebow was single-handedly willing the Broncos to victory too.

I may try to re-watch all the games at some point and do a little more of my own intensive study. I really have no interest in wanting the kid to fail. It's totally counter-intuitive because I want LSU to be awesome and that would mean Lee as well.

Lee certainly played very well in chunks. I think the Mississippi State game was his best of the year. But we've seen him play well in chunks in the past. And I think the fact that Miles only allowed him to throw it 15-20 times a game is a comment on his ability (same with JJ). Pass attempts were much higher with Russell/Flynn. Which is why I think the criticism of Miles hating passing is a lot more tied to who is doing the passing than the actual action.

Lee was Les' pet and he didn't play him to protect him from the fans.

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No. Not sure where you people get this stuff.

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THe More Sports Board? ESPN? Skip Bayless?

The opinion that the Broncos were winning solely because of Tebow was pretty widely distributed and espoused.

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THe More Sports Board? ESPN? Skip Bayless?

The opinion that the Broncos were winning solely because of Tebow was pretty widely distributed and espoused.

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I don't believe anywhere near the majority believed he willed anything to victory. I think most people felt his attitude promoted a winning environment among his teammates. I didn't think people actually took Skip Bayless as representative of what most people believe. Guess some do.

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What I'm saying is that if I posted this and asked people to tell me if they thought it was a great player who had a great 4 year career:

317/565, 56%, 3949 yards, 31 TDs, 21 INTs, 120.125 Rating. 26.9 ATT/INT, 10.22 ATT/TD

Would anyone say "Man, that is one great player!"

No.

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And this is why no one can take you seriously. It's just a dishonestly stupid appraisal of Lee's career it's ridiculous.

You have 2 years where Lee had significant playing time that were on the bookends of his time here. Freshman and senior year. He only played in spot duty in 2009/2010

So in essence you're basically taking his senior year numbers (which were good) and his freshman year numbers (which were abysmal) and dividing them out and pretending that it has any relevance at all.

The difference between freshman year and senior year was huge in terms of efficiency.

If he had played for the majority of the 2009/2010 seasons it would make sense to look at his stats in terms of career stats, but he didn't so it's not really a worthwhile exercise.