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Talked to a NCAA official yesterday about the end of LSU/UT
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:04 am
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:04 am
The official is a buddy of mine, and he had just gotten off the phone with a friend of his who was on yesterday's LSU/UT officiating crew. I, of course, asked him whether or not Dooley had any gripe whatsoever.
The answer was "no." Why?
One issue that Dooley (and Lou Holtz) had was that Tennessee's defense did not have ample time to substitute their players when LSU subbed theirs. Two points:
a) While officials are told to stand over the ball in substitution situations so that the defense has a chance to sub, officials almost never do this in the final :40 of a half because they don't want the game to end while they are preventing the offense from lining up.
b) They had plenty of time. The video shows four UT players entering the game, and three UT players beginning to exit (one of them turned back around to re-enter the line-up). The two players who ultimately decided to leave the game got to the sideline at least three seconds before the ball was snapped.
The other possible issue was whether there was an actual flag thrown by the on-field crew for illegal participation, or whether the replay booth mandated the penalty call. My friend said that there actually was a flag thrown in the end zone (hard to see since the flag was the same color as the end zone paint), but it didn't matter. The replay booth is actually authorized to buzz in and inform the on-field crew of illegal participation in situations like these.
Basically, the SEC officials officiated the end of the game perfectly. That's right--SEC officials did their job really really well yesterday.
The answer was "no." Why?
One issue that Dooley (and Lou Holtz) had was that Tennessee's defense did not have ample time to substitute their players when LSU subbed theirs. Two points:
a) While officials are told to stand over the ball in substitution situations so that the defense has a chance to sub, officials almost never do this in the final :40 of a half because they don't want the game to end while they are preventing the offense from lining up.
b) They had plenty of time. The video shows four UT players entering the game, and three UT players beginning to exit (one of them turned back around to re-enter the line-up). The two players who ultimately decided to leave the game got to the sideline at least three seconds before the ball was snapped.
The other possible issue was whether there was an actual flag thrown by the on-field crew for illegal participation, or whether the replay booth mandated the penalty call. My friend said that there actually was a flag thrown in the end zone (hard to see since the flag was the same color as the end zone paint), but it didn't matter. The replay booth is actually authorized to buzz in and inform the on-field crew of illegal participation in situations like these.
Basically, the SEC officials officiated the end of the game perfectly. That's right--SEC officials did their job really really well yesterday.
This post was edited on 10/3/10 at 9:06 am
17
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:07 am to xiv
The refs CLEARLY got it right. The back ref DID come in and stand over the ball while Tennessee was substituting, then he backed off. Watched it a thousand times.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:08 am to xiv
Flag was definitely dropped in the endzone.....
Still a little one-sided w/ the calls...but UT had 3 HUGE one's at the end of that game.
Still a little one-sided w/ the calls...but UT had 3 HUGE one's at the end of that game.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:13 am to Lucky Loper
quote:Sort of right. He approached the ball and stood in the vicinity in case he needed to hold the play, but when he noticed that Tennessee's subs were already set, he backed off.
The back ref DID come in and stand over the ball while Tennessee was substituting, then he backed off. Watched it a thousand times.
But yes, Tennessee lost this one fair and square.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:16 am to xiv
Good to hear
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:18 am to xiv
One question I have though, is whether the offense was set at the time of the snap. It looked like the running back was shifting, not in motion mind you, while the ball was snapped. I don't have a dog in the fight but I would be curious to know more about that.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:24 am to emoney
quote:
One question I have though, is whether the offense was set at the time of the snap. It looked like the running back was shifting, not in motion mind you, while the ball was snapped. I don't have a dog in the fight but I would be curious to know more about that.
I was curious about that too, and also, what about the LSU players tossing their helmets? Should that be a penalty, or was it okay because the clock said the game was over?
Also, watching the game on tv, they kept saying that the clock was not official, (was it broken or something?), did this come into play at all in the last seconds?
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:26 am to emoney
quote:
One question I have though, is whether the offense was set at the time of the snap. It looked like the running back was shifting, not in motion mind you, while the ball was snapped. I don't have a dog in the fight but I would be curious to know more about that.
Would not have mattered, because multiple infractions would have been considered offsetting penalties, and since you cannot end the game on a defensive foul(intentional foul creating in essence a delay of game), there would have been an additional play run anyway.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:27 am to emoney
quote:I just watched it like three times with that in mind, and I think they were set.
It looked like the running back was shifting, not in motion mind you, while the ball was snapped.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:31 am to Lucky Loper
I sit in the north end zone, and there were two flags in the endzone right after the play.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:34 am to xiv
i think dooley owes miles an apology. 
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:36 am to blueTunaTiger
quote:
there would have been an additional play run anyway.
From the previous spot which was the two yard line. He wouldn't have gotten in from the two on that carry.
Point is it does matter. I watched the ending. LSU was not set before the play and you had a player that slammed his helmet to the ground while the ball was still live.
Take it but don't try to justify it.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:39 am to tigerwat
quote:
I sit in the north end zone, and there were two flags in the endzone right after the play.
According to the CBS postgame report, there were actually 3 flags thrown.
The no-call on the helmet throwing was also a correct no call - the game was apparently over since the clock had expired and LSU did not score on the play. There was no apparent reason to make the call at that point. And that no-call is not reviewable, unlike the illegal participation call.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:40 am to xiv
First off It did not matter wether the Officials threw a flag on the illegal participation. This is reviewable and this could be reviewed from the booth.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:42 am to VABuckeye
quote:
From the previous spot which was the two yard line. He wouldn't have gotten in from the two on that carry.
Point is it does matter. I watched the ending. LSU was not set before the play and you had a player that slammed his helmet to the ground while the ball was still live.
Take it but don't try to justify it.
Spoken by an Ohio State fan.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:42 am to VABuckeye
quote:
I watched the ending. LSU was not set before the play and you had a player that slammed his helmet to the ground while the ball was still live.
See above for why the no-call was correct on the helmet. Also, if there was motion, and there was no call, it is not reviewable.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:43 am to xiv
All one has to do is look at the screen shot when they actually COUNT the players. ALL players are set.
The rule does not also give you time to actually count then number of players you have and adjust.
The rule does not also give you time to actually count then number of players you have and adjust.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:43 am to DeafVallyBatnR
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:44 am to xiv
Thanks for the update. I sit in the South Endzone and did not see the flag but stayed because of the confussion and it appeared to me that the official were discussing something. A friend in the North Endzone definitely saw the flag dropped on the play.
Posted on 10/3/10 at 9:45 am to VABuckeye
VA Buckeye...
Still bitter about losing to LSU in the 'Dome.
There are treatments for that...
Still bitter about losing to LSU in the 'Dome.
There are treatments for that...
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