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re: Ruling on SELA catcher tossing ball to his dugout

Posted on 2/20/14 at 2:51 pm to
Posted by PurpleAndGold86
Member since Jun 2012
11036 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

If the coach intentionally picks the ball up it is dead.

Not if the umpires frick up and don't see it isn't. No play is dead until the umpire calls it as such. Thanks again.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22215 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 2:55 pm to
Well no shite.

If a pitch hits the batter is it dead? I guess not if the umpire doesn't see it. Strong argument you have there.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22215 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

Corrected myself like 2 posts later. But thanks.


Lol someone correct you and posted the rule.
Posted by ReelFun
Behind dugout
Member since Apr 2012
1004 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

quote:
There is timeout in baseball. I dont know any other way to state that.



what else would you call it?



heck forgot the quote on the first one.

rule 5.10
The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls “Time.” The umpire-in-chief shall
call “Time”—

and I don't see the coach touching it as being a reason for a dead ball or time.
This post was edited on 2/20/14 at 3:00 pm
Posted by PurpleAndGold86
Member since Jun 2012
11036 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

I'm pretty sure that technically it's based on where the runners are when the pitch is thrown....if the throw resulting in the ball becoming dead is the first play by an infielder (i.e. not on the relay throw on a double play).

From MLB rule book:
quote:

APPROVED RULING: If all runners, including the batter-runner, have advanced at least one base when an infielder makes a wild throw on the first play after the pitch, the award shall be governed by the position of the runners when the wild throw was made.
Posted by PurpleAndGold86
Member since Jun 2012
11036 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

Corrected myself like 2 posts later. But thanks. Lol someone correct you and posted the rule.

Actually, I corrected myself:

quote:

Well actually I remember this one. It was Benny Agbayani for the Mets a while back:


quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On August 12, 2000 while a member of the Mets, Agbayani was involved in a particularly memorable play. In the fourth inning, with the Mets leading 1-0, the Giants loaded the bases after a double, an error, and a hit batsman. With one out, Giants catcher Bobby Estalella hit a fly pop to Agbayani in left field. Agbayani, thinking that the catch made three outs, gave the ball to a child in the stands and began to trot toward the dugout. It took him a moment to realize his mistake, but once he did, he sprinted back to the stands, pulled the ball from the hands of the young fan he had given it to, and fired a throw toward home plate. Unfortunately for Agbayani, once the ball left the field, the play was dead, and all three runners were awarded two bases—causing Jeff Kent and Ellis Burks to score, and the Giants to take the lead, 2-1. The Mets went on to win the game, 3-2, and Agbayani gave another ball to the fan who had given the previous one back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




So that says it was dead and everyone gets two bases. The umps never ruled the play dead though while it was going on (sorry this is referring to the LSU play last night). Typically they would put their hands up and tell the runners which base they are being awarded, but that didn't happen.

Maybe once the 3 got together they ruled it dead and determined everyone should get two bases? But technically the ball also never left the field of play. The coach picked it up in FRONT of the dugout.


You're pretty spot on so far though.
This post was edited on 2/20/14 at 3:03 pm
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22215 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

and I don't see the coach touching it as being a reason for a dead ball or time.


Of course it is. Can a base coach pick up a live ball and hold it while his runners advance? Can a coach in the dugout pick up and overthrown ball to stop if from going out of play?
Posted by PurpleAndGold86
Member since Jun 2012
11036 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

Well no shite. If a pitch hits the batter is it dead? I guess not if the umpire doesn't see it. Strong argument you have there.

You're fricking stupid. No play is dead until the umpire calls it as such.

quote:

If a pitch hits the batter is it dead? I guess not if the umpire doesn't see it.

No, if a pitch grazes a hitters jersey and in the umpires estimation it didn't hit him, the ball would be live. I.e. if it went to the backstop with runners on base they could run. How stupid are you?
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22215 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:10 pm to
I understand that man, but the RULE is that if the ball leaves the field of play then it is dead. I was merely stating the rule. Anything in sports requires the umpire/official to rule it that way. Doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.

That's like me saying if a fg attempt travels over the cross bar and between the two uprights extended then it is good and then you arguing that it isn't good if the referees didn't see it.
Posted by ReelFun
Behind dugout
Member since Apr 2012
1004 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

Of course it is. Can a base coach pick up a live ball and hold it while his runners advance? Can a coach in the dugout pick up and overthrown ball to stop if from going out of play?



you would think....but not in dead ball or time section.

5.09
The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, with-
out liability to be put out, when— (a)through (h)

Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22215 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:12 pm to
I'm not on a computer so I don't feel like trying to look through the rule book, but I promise you it's in there.
Posted by PurpleAndGold86
Member since Jun 2012
11036 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

but the RULE is that if the ball leaves the field of play then it is dead

That's very well established by this point in the thread.

The play still has to be carried out by the players on the field as if it were live, until the umpire says otherwise. Maybe you didn't really read anything before you stepped in trying to correct everyone, because that's what a lot of the discussion has been around. The umpires didn't know where the ball was. Had the coach dropped it immediately and no one had seen him touch it, it very much would have been a live ball.
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22215 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

you would think....but not in dead ball or time section.


Here you go

quote:

SECTION 4. The ball becomes dead and base runners advance one base without liability to be put out when: a. A spectator or any other individual intentionally interferes with any thrown or batted ball. PENALTY—The ball is dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as to nullify the act of interference;
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22215 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

The play still has to be carried out by the players on the field as if it were live, until the umpire says otherwise. Maybe you didn't really read anything before you stepped in trying to correct everyone, because that's what a lot of the discussion has been around. The umpires didn't know where the ball was. Had the coach dropped it immediately and no one had seen him touch it, it very much would have been a live ball.


Well there you go. I didn't see the play. I just wanted to make sure people didn't think the ball remains live in this situation (coach picking the ball up) or when a ball is tossed into the stands.
Posted by omegaman66
greenwell springs
Member since Oct 2007
22797 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 6:46 pm to
Why is everyone still discussing the call. The only thing we really need to know is what the heck the coach was arguing!
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 7:12 pm to
I think the SLU coach wanted Bregman back to third BUT that wasn't going to happen. The umps talked for a long time in front of the mound I think they were discussing whether or not to advance Hale to home and that is why they pointed at third when they started play again.
Posted by LSUtoOmaha
Nashville
Member since Apr 2004
26590 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 7:19 pm to
I want to know why the coach was not ejected for interfering with a ball in live play.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 7:23 pm to
I think the umps ruled right. I do think the only question was whether or not to advance Hale. Bergman did not advance til the ball was in the coach's hand so I think he got his base and Hale got his when he went to third.
This post was edited on 2/20/14 at 7:25 pm
Posted by josh336
baton rouge
Member since Jan 2007
78166 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 8:29 pm to
Whole lot of one uppers in this thread. Does anyone have an ncaa rulebook we can quote instead of an mlb rulebook?
Posted by AstroTiger
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Oct 2007
22966 posts
Posted on 2/20/14 at 8:31 pm to
I have read none of this thread, and I don't even know who you are responding to but I'll chime in and say that the NCAA baseball rulebook does not have every single baseball rule. There is a section that says any rule not addressed in the NCAA book then the rule goes back to the MLB rules. Again, I don't even know what yall are talking about, i just saw the last post.
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