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re: Reali-Tigers are you out there?
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:34 pm to beauchristopher
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:34 pm to beauchristopher
You have put into words the feeling of the majority of long time LSU fans. Thanks.
0
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:34 pm to Va Tiger Fan
quote:
Right now he's getting us too much talent to fire him.
Him getting the talent isnt the reason he needs to go. Its what he isnt doing with said talent that is the problem
quote:
And he's not just getting the talent, but he's keeping us competitive
Does it make you feel better to lose games by a close margin?
quote:
We win ALL the games we're supposed to
Sorry but I have to call you on this one.
Tenn- 05
Aubbie 06
UK -07
Arky- 07-08
quote:
We have challenges and we adjust
Ok, all I can do is laugh at this one
I appreciate your take on all of this and you make some great points but, if you cant see the GLARING coaching problems for what they are then you need to re-evaluate your analysis
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:38 pm to Va Tiger Fan
The talent of high school football in Louisiana in the late 90s-early 2000s was absolutely exceptional.. and most of these in state kids were coming to LSU regardless. Yes Saban had a few tremendous out of state recruits.. but I get sick of hearing the whole Miles winning with Saban's players..
When Saban came back to college football.. That did nothing but help the perception of him and his recruiting has benefited to a whole other level.
When Saban came back to college football.. That did nothing but help the perception of him and his recruiting has benefited to a whole other level.
This post was edited on 11/29/09 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:38 pm to Va Tiger Fan
quote:
I'd give up unspeakable things to see 13-0 and #1 every year,
Get your point,but,the unknowing is the greatest thing about sports.Some say having to win by a fieldgoal against a bad team in Arkansas is unacceptable.Then why did we play them this year.I bet Michigan fans thought that way about App.St. a couple of years ago.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:42 pm to MsGulfCoastTigerFan
What's funny is that same Michigan team that very season beat Florida with Mr.Heisman himself at the helm.. IN FLORIDA nonetheless.. but of course no one ever remembers that or holds it against UF..
This post was edited on 11/29/09 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:47 pm to beauchristopher
Ask yourself this...has the team gotten better at anything since Miles took over? The defense is vastly improved this year...but I credit little to none of that to Miles. Everything else has remained in a constant decline, and now the performance on the field shows that. Amazing to me how many of you were probably writing up scathing reviews of his performance until Jasper sends it into overtime and suddenly you forget. I'm stealing here, but do not put results in front of the process.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:50 pm to Va Tiger Fan
I completely agree with the OP. Thank you very much for writing down some very intelligent words that many people should listen to.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:52 pm to LSUMafia
quote:
Every year ticket prices go up, concessions go up, and sometimes drastically. Then you have a head coach making $3.75M a year and his staff making over $2M/year giving around $6 M in just salaries going to our coaching staffs.
I think this is a big part of it. I think people feel that if they pay "x" amount of dollars, and the staff is paid "x" amount that must translate into sec championships and bcs championships every year. Then the thought process becomes well what is anyone paying for, if the results do not translate to the success high salaried coaches are expected to get. If Miles and co. would have had smaller salaries maybe the expectations would be lowered also. It all comes down to the saying you get what you pay for, and fans expect alot based on these coaches salaries.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 10:57 pm to lsutigerfan1976
I think the Salaries are a part of it. I think the rise of Bama under Saban could've gone one of two ways.
1) It could either end the Miles to Saban comparisons by Miles dominating him, or
2) Instill fear in LSU fans that Miles really wasn't as good as Saban.
I think losing to Bama two years in a row, and watching them go 12-0 two years in a row within 1 game of a national title has put many fans at #2. Even worse is how quickly he turned them around.
I am not a Miles fan, but once Saban came back to the SEC and went to Bama, national title or not, he had a target on his back if he can't beat Saban and Bama.
1) It could either end the Miles to Saban comparisons by Miles dominating him, or
2) Instill fear in LSU fans that Miles really wasn't as good as Saban.
I think losing to Bama two years in a row, and watching them go 12-0 two years in a row within 1 game of a national title has put many fans at #2. Even worse is how quickly he turned them around.
I am not a Miles fan, but once Saban came back to the SEC and went to Bama, national title or not, he had a target on his back if he can't beat Saban and Bama.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:02 pm to tigerbait98
OK... I'll bite.. I was expecting this and I'm ready for it...
Dude, we're going to lose some games. Check the record books lately. Very few teams go undefeated anymore (this year is an aberration). Even the two NC's we won were tainted with a loss or two. UF won last year with a loss. I don't need to document the fact that teams lose, even great ones. But yes, it does make me feel better when we're IN those games. We DON'T suck. We don't get blown out. I haven't been able to say that my entire life... and moreover, remaining competitive game in and game out year over year is what builds the type of confidence and expectations that we all want. So yes, given the realistic fact that we WILL lose games, I'd like for those to be close and not be embarrassing 30 point blowouts.
Hold on - you're going to call me out on an OVERTIME loss to Tennessee in 2005? The second game of Miles' FIRST year? 2-3 weeks after Katrina hit and the entire state of Louisiana was enduring a national disaster the likes of which we rarely see in many generations? Two weeks after moving a home game to Arizona and coming up with a last second win? A mere few days after Rita pummeled the area again and moved the game to a Monday night? Granted that was the beginning of the end for Phil and they finished 5-6... but come on dude!
Auburn 2006??? a 7-3 game, IN Auburn that was riddled with questionable calls? A close road game in the SEC that we lost by 4 points to a 11-2 team? Again, you're going to win some of those games and lose some of those games.
UK 2007? A super hot Kentucky football team that was ranked highly at 5-1 and coming off a loss at USC... Yeah, we probably should have won that game, but it was close and went to TRIPLE FREAKING OVERTIME. Crazy stuff happens in triple OT. Again, a close game on the road in the SEC against a formidable opponent at the time. Yeah, you win some and you lose some.
Arkansas 07 - triple OT again. Granted this was a home game, but the Razorbacks did have a couple guys named McFadden and Jones on their squad, and I think they were 7-4 when we played them. All but one of their losses were to ranked SEC teams (the other loss I think was also an SEC game). They weren't a pushover. Arkansas isn't Troy.
Arkansas 08 - I might can give you this one... even though it was on the road, we were facing a team with a depleted roster and a new coach. Of course, see my statements earlier about the team WE were last year. Not the best team either... This wasn't our 07 squad going against Arkansas, it was our 08 squad with a freshman JJ running the show, and we'd just been stomach punched in three of our previous five games.
Are there problems, yes... Our offensive game plan is non-existent. We need an identity with THIS group of players. Gary Crowton has had 2 years to make that happen. He failed. Les Miles, as the CEO of this teams takes that blame. Time to make a change. That's the adjustment I'm talking about. If it doesn't happen, I will 1) be shocked and appalled and 2) we'll have a much different conversation at that point and perhaps you will have more valid points. Would you like to fire GC in the middle of the season and install a new playbook? Ask Tommy Tubberville how that worked out last year on the Plains. Les Miles has made adjustments and improved this team. I expect he'll continue to do so or he won't have the reigns for very long. But those adjustments do NOT happen over night. Dynasties aren't haphazardly constructed on a whim. They're carefully cultivated through years of building success and some trial and error.
quote:
Does it make you feel better to lose games by a close margin?
Dude, we're going to lose some games. Check the record books lately. Very few teams go undefeated anymore (this year is an aberration). Even the two NC's we won were tainted with a loss or two. UF won last year with a loss. I don't need to document the fact that teams lose, even great ones. But yes, it does make me feel better when we're IN those games. We DON'T suck. We don't get blown out. I haven't been able to say that my entire life... and moreover, remaining competitive game in and game out year over year is what builds the type of confidence and expectations that we all want. So yes, given the realistic fact that we WILL lose games, I'd like for those to be close and not be embarrassing 30 point blowouts.
quote:
We win ALL the games we're supposed to
Sorry but I have to call you on this one.
Tenn- 05
Aubbie 06
UK -07
Arky- 07-08
Hold on - you're going to call me out on an OVERTIME loss to Tennessee in 2005? The second game of Miles' FIRST year? 2-3 weeks after Katrina hit and the entire state of Louisiana was enduring a national disaster the likes of which we rarely see in many generations? Two weeks after moving a home game to Arizona and coming up with a last second win? A mere few days after Rita pummeled the area again and moved the game to a Monday night? Granted that was the beginning of the end for Phil and they finished 5-6... but come on dude!
Auburn 2006??? a 7-3 game, IN Auburn that was riddled with questionable calls? A close road game in the SEC that we lost by 4 points to a 11-2 team? Again, you're going to win some of those games and lose some of those games.
UK 2007? A super hot Kentucky football team that was ranked highly at 5-1 and coming off a loss at USC... Yeah, we probably should have won that game, but it was close and went to TRIPLE FREAKING OVERTIME. Crazy stuff happens in triple OT. Again, a close game on the road in the SEC against a formidable opponent at the time. Yeah, you win some and you lose some.
Arkansas 07 - triple OT again. Granted this was a home game, but the Razorbacks did have a couple guys named McFadden and Jones on their squad, and I think they were 7-4 when we played them. All but one of their losses were to ranked SEC teams (the other loss I think was also an SEC game). They weren't a pushover. Arkansas isn't Troy.
Arkansas 08 - I might can give you this one... even though it was on the road, we were facing a team with a depleted roster and a new coach. Of course, see my statements earlier about the team WE were last year. Not the best team either... This wasn't our 07 squad going against Arkansas, it was our 08 squad with a freshman JJ running the show, and we'd just been stomach punched in three of our previous five games.
quote:
I appreciate your take on all of this and you make some great points but, if you cant see the GLARING coaching problems for what they are then you need to re-evaluate your analysis
Are there problems, yes... Our offensive game plan is non-existent. We need an identity with THIS group of players. Gary Crowton has had 2 years to make that happen. He failed. Les Miles, as the CEO of this teams takes that blame. Time to make a change. That's the adjustment I'm talking about. If it doesn't happen, I will 1) be shocked and appalled and 2) we'll have a much different conversation at that point and perhaps you will have more valid points. Would you like to fire GC in the middle of the season and install a new playbook? Ask Tommy Tubberville how that worked out last year on the Plains. Les Miles has made adjustments and improved this team. I expect he'll continue to do so or he won't have the reigns for very long. But those adjustments do NOT happen over night. Dynasties aren't haphazardly constructed on a whim. They're carefully cultivated through years of building success and some trial and error.
This post was edited on 11/29/09 at 11:06 pm
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:07 pm to LSUMafia
Really to me, its not even about winning the SEC and beating Bama. Im not stupid enough to expect to even play for the SEC Championship more than once every 5 years, even then thats pretty damn good. However, its the constantly looking like shite against the ULL's and LaTechs of the world. We never dominate ANYONE on our schedule. Miles could turn things around here very quickly if he would:
1) Start bitch slapping the cupcakes (like he's supposed to). No more come from behind victories to La Tech.
2) Just be at least competitive with Bama in the West. The West race shouldn't be "over" at the beginning of Novemeber every year.
1) Start bitch slapping the cupcakes (like he's supposed to). No more come from behind victories to La Tech.
2) Just be at least competitive with Bama in the West. The West race shouldn't be "over" at the beginning of Novemeber every year.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:07 pm to Va Tiger Fan
Great post VA Tiger Fan. 
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:08 pm to lsutigerfan1976
This post should be stickied and be made required reading.. this is spot on
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:09 pm to Va Tiger Fan
quote:
Va Tiger Fan
Would you quit using proper perspecive, logic, and sound judgment in your posts. The board can't handle it. What this place needs is some extremism, mixed in with over-the-top hyperbole.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:12 pm to MemphisJerk
If you think an SEC title shot every 5 years is a realistic goal given our coaches' salaries, then that's where we disagree.
If Miles and his staff are making half their salary, I may agree with you. It's more about the money invested that makes it expected you'll be in the SEC championship ever other year. Is that honestly realistic? No, of course not, but given the money paid, it is expected.
The SEC is not as good as it has been, and that is what makes it worse.
If Miles and his staff are making half their salary, I may agree with you. It's more about the money invested that makes it expected you'll be in the SEC championship ever other year. Is that honestly realistic? No, of course not, but given the money paid, it is expected.
The SEC is not as good as it has been, and that is what makes it worse.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:14 pm to Va Tiger Fan
Thanks for your post. To be honest the back biting and doom and gloom on the board had me ready to take a break from the Rant for awhile (or at least trundle off to the OT unitl closer to the bowl game). But at least there are still some fans out there able to see the bigger picture.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:14 pm to LSUMafia
To complete my thought, Miles deserves a chance to prove that we are continuing to improve. He should get next season at least to prove whether he can correct our issues on offense like he has on the defensive side of the ball this year.
People giving up on him completely need to get a little perspective. I may think his contract is retarded, but that doesn't mean he's not a good coach and deserving of a realistic shot.
People giving up on him completely need to get a little perspective. I may think his contract is retarded, but that doesn't mean he's not a good coach and deserving of a realistic shot.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:21 pm to LSUMafia
With the talent in La. high schools year to year and recruiting a few outside the state there is no reason LSU cannot be a football powerhouse. Even Saban said this. It proves a fact that I have stated before, people in La. are to partial to the coaches running the program. Mediocre coaches like Hallman, Dinardo, and now Miles.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:22 pm to DONHOGG
Miles still deserves a chance to redeem himself next year. My big thing is to just not give him the 1 year extension this year to protect LSU's interest and I'll be happy to give him a chance to see what he can fix next year.
Posted on 11/29/09 at 11:24 pm to lsutigerfan1976
My take on salaries and the relation to expectations... To be blunt, if you want to run with the big dogs, you have to play by the rules of the yard. And that means shelling out the big bucks. Before Saban and the 03 NC, we didn't have to worry about big salaries. We weren't good. We didn't have high profile coaches. Then all of the sudden we did. And part of the game is you have to reward them with the scratch or they go elsewhere (and even if you do pay them, they bolt for the pros). It's all the price of success.
We didn't bring in Miles at $3.75 million a year. We offered him a competitive salary that he could or would have been offered by many schools that may have been interested in him. And keep in mind, although he wasn't the "sexiest" candidate in the country in 2005, he was "a guy to keep an eye on." He brought Oklahoma State out of nowhere to compete in the Big 12 and he even knocked the mighty Sooners and Bob Stoops in the mouth a couple of times. But when he won the NC in 07, we did what we had to do - reward him for the success. Just like almost every other coaches' contract in the NCAA, if you win the NC you get a big raise and you become one of the top dollar guys. I'm sure LSU has recouped some of that in merchandise sold and national exposure. I know that 6-7 years ago I could only find LSU gear online, and I for damned sure was the only guy in Virginia sporting it. Now, it's not uncommon to run into a Tiger logo or two every now and again up here. Bottom line, they win, you gotta pay. If we did fire Miles, we've gotta pay the next guy too. We could go the "guy to keep an eye on" route and pay a guy $1.5 million a year, or we can go out and make a splash with a "Big Name" guy that's won a NC or two. That "Big Name" guy is gonna want to get paid too and we're right back in the same spot. Paying these salaries is what it is...
As far as the expectations go, I know that if I paid more I'd expect to see more winning on the field, but again, that happens over time. LSU and TAF are charging more because they CAN, and because they have to. Like any other business, they're reinvesting the funds into growth. Does that price out some people? Yes, and the crappy part of that sucks and it's not nice, but it happens.
I look at Virginia Tech. 15 or so years ago I went to games there in a glorified high school stadium that literally had little league style bleachers in one end zone. Tickets cost nothing and were readily available for $15 at the gate 10 minutes before kick off. They started winning some games, getting national exposure, and the prices went up. They had to pay Beamer and his staff to stay. Then things like luxury boxes pop up. Those bleachers went away and they expanded the stadium. New practice facilities. VT went from a po'dunk Big East door mat that was an after thought to being a big time player - hell, big time college football is practically a corporation. All of the sudden, alumns were kind of proud to be associated with Hokie football. Everyone wanted tickets. Companies wanted suites. Supply and Demand, Econ 101, prices went up, and the expectations went up as well. VT needs to compete year in and year out, but they have never had the success LSU or other bigger programs have had, and so their expectations aren't quite as high (at least they're not losing to Temple). Certainly this situation isn't exactly parallel to LSU, but perhaps you can draw some similarities. There's just a price to pay when you want to be among the elite.
We didn't bring in Miles at $3.75 million a year. We offered him a competitive salary that he could or would have been offered by many schools that may have been interested in him. And keep in mind, although he wasn't the "sexiest" candidate in the country in 2005, he was "a guy to keep an eye on." He brought Oklahoma State out of nowhere to compete in the Big 12 and he even knocked the mighty Sooners and Bob Stoops in the mouth a couple of times. But when he won the NC in 07, we did what we had to do - reward him for the success. Just like almost every other coaches' contract in the NCAA, if you win the NC you get a big raise and you become one of the top dollar guys. I'm sure LSU has recouped some of that in merchandise sold and national exposure. I know that 6-7 years ago I could only find LSU gear online, and I for damned sure was the only guy in Virginia sporting it. Now, it's not uncommon to run into a Tiger logo or two every now and again up here. Bottom line, they win, you gotta pay. If we did fire Miles, we've gotta pay the next guy too. We could go the "guy to keep an eye on" route and pay a guy $1.5 million a year, or we can go out and make a splash with a "Big Name" guy that's won a NC or two. That "Big Name" guy is gonna want to get paid too and we're right back in the same spot. Paying these salaries is what it is...
As far as the expectations go, I know that if I paid more I'd expect to see more winning on the field, but again, that happens over time. LSU and TAF are charging more because they CAN, and because they have to. Like any other business, they're reinvesting the funds into growth. Does that price out some people? Yes, and the crappy part of that sucks and it's not nice, but it happens.
I look at Virginia Tech. 15 or so years ago I went to games there in a glorified high school stadium that literally had little league style bleachers in one end zone. Tickets cost nothing and were readily available for $15 at the gate 10 minutes before kick off. They started winning some games, getting national exposure, and the prices went up. They had to pay Beamer and his staff to stay. Then things like luxury boxes pop up. Those bleachers went away and they expanded the stadium. New practice facilities. VT went from a po'dunk Big East door mat that was an after thought to being a big time player - hell, big time college football is practically a corporation. All of the sudden, alumns were kind of proud to be associated with Hokie football. Everyone wanted tickets. Companies wanted suites. Supply and Demand, Econ 101, prices went up, and the expectations went up as well. VT needs to compete year in and year out, but they have never had the success LSU or other bigger programs have had, and so their expectations aren't quite as high (at least they're not losing to Temple). Certainly this situation isn't exactly parallel to LSU, but perhaps you can draw some similarities. There's just a price to pay when you want to be among the elite.
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