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re: picked off 2nd to end the game?
Posted on 3/19/10 at 10:51 pm to moneyg
Posted on 3/19/10 at 10:51 pm to moneyg
quote:
If you are going to point to one guy to lay the blame, it's Hanover by a wide margin.
nah, its easily on the coach.
for one as a baserunner, you don't expect that at all. That's not the first thing in his head. Hanover's job is to run the bases. Get a good jump regardless, cause in his mind, he is scoring on a hit.
Sanchez's job is to play all the scenarios out in his head. He's the thinker in that situation.
And if Hanover was getting off too far, he needs to tell him to get back.
If the SS comes anywhere close to being even with Hanover as he leads off, Sanchez needs to say something.
leading off second base in no man's land. The 3rd base coach needs to be in constant contact with the runner, regardless if he is deemed "meaningless".
just bad coaching on his part, and its not the first time dating back to last year.
2
Posted on 3/19/10 at 11:17 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
nah, its easily on the coach.
I disagree.
Hanover has to know. Sanchez didn't help him out. And, deserves criticism himself.
But, in baseball, the players have to know the situation. Hanover screwed up royally.
Posted on 3/19/10 at 11:43 pm to Lester Earl
At that point it was too late for Sanchez to "tell him to get back"......it is all on Hanover unless you can prove Sanchez told him to get that big lead.....case closed
Posted on 3/19/10 at 11:51 pm to LSU316
too late??
his only job at the point is to watch the SS for Hanover after he gives the signs to the hitter.
and if he was watching and was too far, he needs to tell him to creep back. And if his lead was fine, then he needs to watch teh SS and make sure he doesnt creep.
please.
It's too late for Sanchez to tell him to get back, then yes, obviously he is going to get picked off because the fricking shortstop is behind him.
football fans acting like they know something about baseball...pathetic
his only job at the point is to watch the SS for Hanover after he gives the signs to the hitter.
and if he was watching and was too far, he needs to tell him to creep back. And if his lead was fine, then he needs to watch teh SS and make sure he doesnt creep.
please.
It's too late for Sanchez to tell him to get back, then yes, obviously he is going to get picked off because the fricking shortstop is behind him.
football fans acting like they know something about baseball...pathetic
This post was edited on 3/19/10 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 3/20/10 at 12:13 am to Lester Earl
If you get picked off, it's all on you. There's no blaming a coach for that. It's your job to know the pitcher's moves. You have to use your brain on the basepaths and figure out if a pitcher has shown you his best move. It doesn't matter what in the world the middle infielders do, who covers the bag, and when they cover the bag. The only person that can pick you off is the pitcher, and that pitcher can only pick you off from two different methods at 2nd base. You should be ready to go back to the bag until the moment the pitcher's front leg makes the move to home THEN take a secondary lead, especially when his run didn't matter.
I don't understand how you can blame a coach for this. They teach you this crap in little leagues, and they teach you to focus on the pitcher especially considering coaches like to 'yo-yo' their SS and 2B back in forth behind the base to make you think a pickoff attempt is coming. It's very basic baserunning.
I don't understand how you can blame a coach for this. They teach you this crap in little leagues, and they teach you to focus on the pitcher especially considering coaches like to 'yo-yo' their SS and 2B back in forth behind the base to make you think a pickoff attempt is coming. It's very basic baserunning.
This post was edited on 3/20/10 at 12:14 am
Posted on 3/20/10 at 12:54 am to kadillak
quote:
If you get picked off, it's all on you
i stopped there.
go to bed
they teach it in little league?? you cant even lead in little league
a well executed pickoff move to 2nd base is defenseless unless the coach has eyes on the middle infielders.
by nature you get off further on 2nd base. By nature a pitcher can lift his leg as if he is going to home plate and wheel around and throw. there's more to it that just watching the pitcher when on 2nd base.
It's not like being on 1st base. You have everything in your eyesight, coupled with the fact that the pitcher 2 options on throwing over are not very deceiving.
seriously, i cant believe i just responded to that crap u just wrote
This post was edited on 3/20/10 at 12:59 am
Posted on 3/20/10 at 1:57 am to Lester Earl
quote:
If you get picked off, it's all on you
Agreed. This isn't little league. Btw... you can lead in age groups equivalent to 7th and 8th in little league. High School is NOT the first level of leading and stealing. By the time you are in high school, you know the basics on stealing and taking a lead. High school coaches will tell you to step a little closer if you are getting to brave, but they will never tell you to get further out because no coach can tell you what you feel comfortable with. By the time college gets here, that 3rd base coach gives signals directly from the head coach and gives them. He then tells them when to round and when to slide. He does not tell the base runner to run back to the bag unless it is a fly ball caught. You know your limits. You aren't suppose to get further away than you feel comfortable getting back. That was all on Hanover.
Another thing. This isn't a football player saying baseball things. 14 years in baseball behind me. Any college player will tell you it's their decision on how far to lead and to watch the pitcher and hear the guys behind you. He should have stayed closer and more conservative to the bag. He got off because they let him run to second without trying to pick him off or gun him down. Until that pick off play, the pitcher wasn't even giving him the time of day on second. Caught Hanover sleeping... Give credit to Arkansas coach for calling the play.
Posted on 3/20/10 at 2:16 am to sportsaddit68
quote:
He does not tell the base runner to run back to the bag unless it is a fly ball caught.
you've got to be kidding me.
so you are saying the 3rd base coach isnt responsible for watching the middle infielders in case they sneak behind the runner???
please, give me a break. I dont know what kind of baseball you played. 14 years of little league maybe.
thats freaking common practice in a major league game. Go to the game, sit by the 3rd base dugout, and listen to the coach. If he is sitting there watching the batter and not the runner while on 2nd base, i'll buy you a freaking hot dog.
Posted on 3/20/10 at 2:32 am to Lester Earl
I'm not saying he doesn't watch the runner. I am saying he isn't telling the runner to go back to the bag just like the other guy said. The 2nd and ss bounce around. He would have to say back on everything. If he sees the pitcher turning to throw he might yell back out of instinct, but you are a sitting duck if you are waiting for his orders. You are looking for a reason to blame a coach and not a player. You have to already be good/decent to play at the College level. Hanover got caught sleeping...that's all. It's not the coaches fault for him taking a lead he can't get back from. It doesn't mean the coaches didn't tell him afterward that he lead too much, but it is your decision. You will never make it to the next level if you have to rely on a coach to tell you when to lead and when to get back. That's basic fundamentals.
Posted on 3/20/10 at 2:41 am to sportsaddit68
the runner watches the 2nd baseman out the corner of his eye, but the coach needs to tell him if hte SS is breaking.
a bluff is a bluff; thats easily detected.
9 times out of 10 the SS breaking to the bag gives the pick off attempt away before hte pitching makes his move. The coach has to recognize that. Especially in that situation when a pickoff ends the game
and if he was too far off, like people say, then the coach needs to tell him to take a step or 2 back to the bag.
not all players are instinctful runners...thats the whole purpose of having a coach out there.
a bluff is a bluff; thats easily detected.
9 times out of 10 the SS breaking to the bag gives the pick off attempt away before hte pitching makes his move. The coach has to recognize that. Especially in that situation when a pickoff ends the game
and if he was too far off, like people say, then the coach needs to tell him to take a step or 2 back to the bag.
not all players are instinctful runners...thats the whole purpose of having a coach out there.
Posted on 3/20/10 at 5:32 am to Lester Earl
Sorry Lester but the base runner at that point is paying more attention to the pitcher instead of looking at the third base coach. It's on the runner not the coach. And yes he was that far off.
Posted on 3/20/10 at 9:27 am to Lester Earl
quote:
football fans acting like they know something about baseball...pathetic
You are out of your mind. Dude I played through my freshman year of college and quit. I NEVER was picked off of a base in my life. EVER. Don't give me that crap about the second base coach. if you don't cheat too far, you don't get picked especially with Hanover's speed.
Posted on 3/20/10 at 10:59 am to Lester Earl
quote:
i stopped there.
go to bed
they teach it in little league?? you cant even lead in little league
a well executed pickoff move to 2nd base is defenseless unless the coach has eyes on the middle infielders.
by nature you get off further on 2nd base. By nature a pitcher can lift his leg as if he is going to home plate and wheel around and throw. there's more to it that just watching the pitcher when on 2nd base.
It's not like being on 1st base. You have everything in your eyesight, coupled with the fact that the pitcher 2 options on throwing over are not very deceiving.
seriously, i cant believe i just responded to that crap u just wrote
Wow, apparently you have never played baseball before. Yes, you can lead in little league. I help coach 11 and 12 year olds right now and they can lead. You are the one making yourself sound pretty darn dumb here.
Posted on 3/20/10 at 12:03 pm to kadillak
quote:
Wow, apparently you have never played baseball before. Yes, you can lead in little league. I help coach 11 and 12 year olds right now and they can lead. You are the one making yourself sound pretty darn dumb here.
+1
Posted on 3/20/10 at 12:56 pm to marvin82
quote:
Sorry Lester but the base runner at that point is paying more attention to the pitcher instead of looking at the third base coach. It's on the runner not the coach. And yes he was that far off
you dont have to be sorry, because you are wrong. no other way to cut it.
you can pay attention to the pitcher and still listen to the 3rd base coach
but its obvious our coach want communicating with the runner on 2nd base.
because
a)he would have told him to get back if he was too far off
b) he would have yelled when the SS sneaked in behind Hanover.
pretty simple concepts. Sanchez fricked up.
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