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Message
re: Opinion on Coach O
Posted on 7/29/19 at 3:56 pm to dukke v
Posted on 7/29/19 at 3:56 pm to dukke v
quote:
I’m not disagreeing with you.....
I know...I just wanted to spell it out for some others who seem slow to what's going on here.
quote:
we may very well lose to Texas and Bama.... which IMO would be underachieving..
Well...if we have the same standards as fans NOW that we did back in year 2 of Les Miles' time here, than YES 100% losing those two games would definitely be underachieving as a program. Question is...do we? I do...some others do...but it appears that there has been a huge push to suggest that those type of expectations are simply too much to now ask of LSU's HC.
quote:
what scares me is how(if we lose to Texas) is how this team responds.....
Any early season high profile loss could be a problem. Of the potential losses it's probably the "best" to have in that we could easily recover from it is we ran the table the rest of the way going 11-1, beating BAMA and going to Atlanta. But...if they'd lose that game, how do they respond? Hopefully we don't have to find out.
1
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:08 pm to BananaHammock
quote:
Damn good post.
quote:
I don’t mean this to sound like I’m shitting on my home state, but the majority of people in Louisiana actively try to find things to complain about. You don’t realize the full extent of it until you leave
I actually tend to think it's either one or the other. Either it's constant negativity or a complete inability to rationally look at any situation...our perpetually being >47th in any "good" measurable for how we rank states for instance with a sense of we need to do better. Trying to just step back and asses a situation disconnected from emotion is not seen as much of a virtue, unfortunately.
quote:
If Saban had stayed in the NFL, things would have been far different for LSU and our fans. As part of building Alabama’s dynasty, he nearly single-handedly cut the legs out from under us.
He's the guy who got us to where we always thought we OUGHT to be...but he's also the guy who ultimately kept us from truly achieving the true potential we had during that time frame I think. You're right...had he stayed in the NFL I think Miles is far more embraced by the fans. He stills wins/loses what he did pre-Saban's return to the SEC, but we almost certainly win at at even higher clip after that date in January 2007 when he took their job. People forget just how bad off BAMA was at that point! They could have EASILY missed again with a hire which is all we'd have needed.
But with Saban back there, Miles was not just being compared to LSU's Saban but now BAMA's which was MUCH better. Every good thing Saban did was held against any bad things Miles did.
As much as I appreciated what Saban did, and as much as I understand that he took the best available job at that time, he did complete frick us...and his complete lack of understanding why LSU fans was so pissed at him at the time for taking that job just kind of showed how unattached he (and likely most mercenary head coaches) was to our program when he was here. It was just a job...a paycheck...
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:17 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You think 2014 was the culmination of Miles’ slippage.
No. I think 2014 was an outlier in his tenure at LSU. It was not a trend...it was only the send time in his time here where we'd failed to win at least 9 games.
quote:
And you think that the standard once set does not need to be repaired? That whomever the new coach would be would have to hit these mythical standards right off the bat? Lol. And you think this is rational thought
You seem to be suggesting a rebuild here...which is not what we were sold by LSU when we hired Ed Orgeron. And please keep in mind...whatever you may think about what he's done thus far as the HC, there is not ONE THING in his resume on the day he was hired that would lead any competent AD to the conclusion that Ed Orgeron is the guy you hire to rebuild a Top 10 program. So either it was not a rebuild and we took a swing on a guy who MIGHT work out with the right coordinator hires, or we hired a guy to rebuild a Top 10 program that no other program wanted to hire at all.
No...Orgeron was not hired for a rebuild. therefore the standards and expectations we had for the program were precisely the same under Orgeron as they had been under Miles. Anything else is simply revisionism.
quote:
I’d argue that Miles lost the reigns on this program even earlier than that. So you have a coach lowering standards with every underachieving season
When? Again, we'd gone 44-9 from 2010 through 2013. This is precisely my point. this run can be declared as underachieving under Miles, but we're told to rejoice in it under Orgeron. Without some impressive intellectual gymnastics it really can't be both.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:36 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Any early season high profile loss could be a problem
IMO that would be losing to a team we should beat..............
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:38 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
GeauxTigerTM
Dude we were cruising through the 2015 schedule and after we got curbstomp by Bama things went downhill quickly.... explain this................
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:44 pm to dukke v
quote:
The 2006 team did underachieve
That's fine if you think that. But another poster had stated that he didn't think a 10-2 regular season should be considered underachieving.
This is the exchange from earlier in this thread:
Terrific Tales quote:
quote:
I just can’t agree that losing to only Bama and Florida is underachieving. That’s losing to our two best opponents both of which will be top 10 teams and one of which will likely be a top 2 team in the country.
GeauxTigerTM's quote:
quote:
What did you think of losing to Auburn and Florida on the road in 2006? Both were Top 5 teams when we played and Florida went on to win the title. Was 2006 underachieving...?
Should we ask the room, because I'm PRETTY SURE folks still look back at that year as one of the biggest misses in Miles' tenure?
Since some people thought the 2006 team underachieved, I would hope that those same people will be honest and consistent enough to call this upcoming season underachieving if we happen to lose to our two toughest opponents.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:47 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
GeauxTigerTM
Great post. Once again.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:48 pm to earl keese
quote:
earl keese
OK. But MY point was that the playcalling was horrible against AU... And the team was just not ready to play FLA......
Now if we somhow beat UT and lose to FLA or AU AT HOME that would suck... I have a feeling we could beat Bama this year... But doubtful....
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:49 pm to Awlunz Tiger
My thoughts are he better win at least 10 games this year or it will be time to send him packing. He had a decent year last year and needs to build on that
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:51 pm to dukke v
quote:
Dude we were cruising through the 2015 schedule and after we got curbstomp by Bama things went downhill quickly.... explain this................
What's to explain? We had poor QB play that forced us to go 1 dimensional. And when we, once again, tried to hit BAMA with that dimension, despite having the best back in the country, they shut it down.
Here's the thing...and it's what you were talking about in terms of what if's regarding the Texas game this year. Losing that game to BAMA, after being ranked #2 and cruising, essentially losing any shot Fournette had for a trip to NYC for the Heisman after his incredible season up to that point, everyone was down... Fans, players, etc. It had happened AGAIN, right? They did not recover until they thought they were playing to send Miles off with a final win.
But back to your point...we WERE cruising then. Not one person...unless they were the type who were still complaining that they'd have fired Miles after losing to TENN in 2005 after his second game as head coach...were talking about program slides! We were talking bout heading back to the NCG late in the year. Only now do you get that kind of talk. At the time, it was just typical Miles underachieving. No one was suggesting the program was trending anywhere...just staying the same, which WAS the problem.
I'm not defending that slide at all. I'm not. Just pointing out that the expectations were different for Miles. They ALWAYS were. If that weren't true there would be no idiots talking about firing him after Game fricking Two of his tenure...and who will STILL cling to that idea as being rational.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 4:58 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
No. I think 2014 was an outlier in his tenure at LSU. It was not a trend...it was only the send time in his time here where we'd failed to win at least 9 games.
You are confusing me, because judging by your last post you seemed to have thought Miles was justifiably fired. Truly hard to tell when you start citing W/L records with zero context.
quote:
You seem to be suggesting a rebuild here...which is not what we were sold by LSU when we hired Ed Orgeron.
It was not a full fledged rebuild, but the program surely wasn't as stable as it was 10 years ago, through no ones fault other than Les Miles. Not the fans, or O, or anyone else.
As far as the quote, Ive followed sports long enough, I do not fall for coach speak & i understand how to read between the lines. If that is what you are hanging your hat on...what Coach O may have said at his introductory press conference, then that is on you.
quote:
When? Again, we'd gone 44-9 from 2010 through 2013. This is precisely my point. this run can be declared as underachieving under Miles, but we're told to rejoice in it under Orgeron.
On what planet are they comparable?
)You are acting like Les Miles retired coming off a national championship or something.
LSU had to fire its most winningest coach in the program's history. Think about what it takes to get to that point. Think even harder about how he was afforded more rope than one should have because of his past successes.
With that in mind, you are seriously going to sit here and compare the positioning of the program in 2010-2013 to what it was when they had to fire its most winningest coach?
Bro, in 2011 LSU fielded its best team in program's history. In what world does anyone think that is underachieving ??? How can anyone sit here and try and draw parallels from that season to Y1 or Y2 of a brand new coach taking over a program that had to fire its most winningest coach?
As much as you want to win an argument on the internet, you can't pretend to think the standards in those places in time are remotely similar.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:03 pm to dukke v
quote:
OK. But MY point was that the playcalling was horrible against AU... And the team was just not ready to play FLA......
Again, that's fine if that's the way you feel.
The question to me is, what if the same kind of things happen this year. Bad play calling, the team not properly prepared to play a game.
Will the fans who cursed Miles and felt the 2006 team underachieved, do and feel the same way this year.
I think o and the team did a pretty good job last year. Hopefully they'll build on that success and have a better season this year.
But if they don't, I would like to see posters on the rant show some consistency instead of what's been going on the past couple of years where some on here claim a 3 and 4 loss season is considered very good seasons.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:03 pm to earl keese
quote:
But another poster had stated that he didn't think a 10-2 regular season should be considered underachieving
It can be, but Its still an objectively very good season
This post was edited on 7/29/19 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:04 pm to earl keese
quote:
Will the fans who cursed Miles and felt the 2006 team underachieved, do and feel the same way this year.
Hey, that's what this is all about! Who can we curse and blame
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:07 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It can be, but Its still an objectively very good season
I think it's a good season as well. But there were plenty of posters who didn't think 2006 was anything special.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:11 pm to dukke v
quote:
But MY point was that the playcalling was horrible against AU...
Eh... Funny thing about that game is that so many people focus on that horrendous no call flag pick-up on the PI against Early Doucet at the end of the game...but what they fail to see is that JaMarcus short armed that throw by a MILE! I don;t have them anymore, but there was a series of photos taken from the NEZ seats by some LSU fan, and you could see the field from behind LSU's offense...so you could see the line Doucet was on and just how open he was. Russell saw it too, and oddly seemed to panic and pulled the string on his throw and forced Early to come back a ton to get to the throw. It's what caused the PI, and what ultimately cost us that game. Had JR laid it out there like he'd done countless times, Early walks in to the EZ and we walk off The Plains with that win.
quote:
And the team was just not ready to play FLA..
C'mon...think back. We were about to put Florida in a bind right before half time. We were tied 7-7 and had just had a 17 play 75 yard drive down to the one and fumbled on first down. Before you knew what happened, Florida had flipped the table after a 3 play drive and punt by them and a one [play interception drive by us. Just like that it's a 14 point difference and they go up 14-7 at half.
We start the second half fumbling the KO in our own EZ and get tackled for a safety. 16-7. Florida gets the ball back on a short field and scores quick going to 23-7. Tacked on a FG at the end to make it 23-10 but we never recovered from that turn of events.
But again...that Florida team was great and went on to win the title that year. We had one brief breakdown that they capitalized on like good teams will. It's not like we sleepwalked through that game.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:12 pm to earl keese
quote:
But there were plenty of posters who didn't think 2006 was anything special.
Earl, you just see everything in extremes. It was arguably the most talent we have put on the field so yeah.. people expected more.
However, that has nothing to do with it being a very good year.
11-2 is elite has n LSU history
This post was edited on 7/29/19 at 5:14 pm
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:16 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Hey, that's what this is all about! Who can we curse and blame
Why am I not surprised that you don't understand that all I was asking for in that post was that people be consistent. If you think a 10-2 regular season record in 2006 (both losses to top ten teams) is underachieving, then a person should be enough of an adult to think and say the same thing about a 10-2 regular season record this upcoming season.
If a person thought 2006 was a good, or great season, they should say the same about this year.
If a person cursed or praised Miles for the job he did in 2006, they should do the same for o if this year were to play out the same way.
Consistency Roger. that would be nice in my opinion. But I know consistency ain't your thing.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:19 pm to earl keese
quote:
If a person cursed or praised Miles for the job he did in 2006,
Most people were pissed at Jimbo, not Les. You can relax now.
Posted on 7/29/19 at 5:26 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Earl, you just see everything in extremes. It was arguably the most talent we have put on the field so yeah.. people expected more.
And there have been a few threads (and/or posts) here on the rant about how this years team will be the most talented team we've ever fielded. Or close to it.
That's why I've said in my earlier post that I would hope that people will view this year (provided this years team finishes the regular season 10-2, with losses to top ten teams) the same way they viewed the 2006 season.
If a person was happy with 2006, great. If a person wasn't happy with 2006, that's great too, Just be consistent.
I don't think that would be that hard to do.
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