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re: LSU men’s bball has youngest rotation in SEC

Posted on 1/27/25 at 1:21 pm to
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59671 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 1:21 pm to
What’s concerning is if you go back and look at our early non conf games guys like Collins were setting good screens and diving hard to the rim but we almost never looked for the roller. As the seasons gone on the screens have gotten more lazy and he’s not diving to the basket nearly has hard as he was. Thats something you want to improve as you go along but we’re regressing and that’s on coach. The not reading screens and poor timing has been going on since he’s been here now with 6 different PGs. The only one who was pretty good at it was Cam Hayes in year 1. That’s also coaching, it doesn’t take talent to do things like that.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
32134 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

I think execution is more the issue than scheme


It's both. Which kind of circles back to McMahon sole career experience as a mid-major coach. Before the world of college sports changed with the transfer rules the mid-major model was to sign second-tier athletes/players and develop them within your preferred structure over the course of 3, 4, 5 years. Guys were better at making the correct reads because they had been in that system for multiple years.

That wasn't 100% the model at the major conf. level before the transfer rules changed. And it sure as hell isn't now. Every year brings a significantly new roster with significantly new players. You can bitch and moan about wanting to go back to the "old days", or you can accept the new world. Acceptance in recruiting takes two forms. Either you specifically sign guys you think will fit your preferred style of play OR you sign the best guys you can and model your style of play to what fits them best. You're unlikely to be able to stack recruiting classes until you get a veteran team like he was able to do at Murray St. As it stands now, 3 of the 4 guys he signed in his first class are gone. He only signed 2 in his second class. If one of those guys leave you go into next year with only 2 players on your roster who have been in your "system" for more than one season (that's also assuming all 3 of this year's freshmen stay.....which is never a guarantee for any coach)

This year's roster has different strengths/weaknesses than last year's roster which had different strengths/weaknesses from the first year's roster. It's not easy, but a HC has to figure out as quick as possible his roster's strengths/weakness so he can tailor the style of play/approach to what the team may do best. This team will defend. He probably has more explosive athletes (at least who are now playing) than his previous teams. It's not a great shooting team. Figure out what they do well and try to emphasize it...even if it may not be how you envisioned things at the start of the season. There are many avenues to winning. You just have to be willing to find the one that is best for you.
This post was edited on 1/27/25 at 1:22 pm
Posted by tigahlovah
virginia beach, va
Member since Oct 2009
3902 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 1:35 pm to
The above post perfectly describes what that coach down in Lake Charles excels at.

How any tiger fan can't be SCREAMING for marathon running Woody to try to bring him back is astounding.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
36634 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

Miller played 13:00. With him in the game LSU had only 10 rebounds. With him off LSU had 33. Hell, LSU had 11 rebounds with Green on the floor who only played 9:00 minutes.
I too would like to know you source. I would be curious if Green was paired more with Chest in his 9 minutes than Miller in his 11.

I would like to see the Collins, Chest, and Green lineup more. Seems like we dominated rebounding when they were in there, Chest especially.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
32134 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

I too would like to know you source. I would be curious if Green was paired more with Chest in his 9 minutes than Miller in his 11.

I would like to see the Collins, Chest, and Green lineup more. Seems like we dominated rebounding when they were in there, Chest especially.


I'm not tech savvy enough to link it, but if you go to the LSU Schedule on the official LSU sports site it will have a link to the (.pdf) box scores for each game. They are quite detailed. Including showing stats for all of the different lineups played by each team.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59671 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 3:26 pm to
Agree and Green can actually shoot the ball so your spacing wouldn’t need to suffer. You’d be bigger, more athletic, better in the paint and on the boards so why not?
Posted by atltiger6487
Member since May 2011
19163 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 3:46 pm to
quote:

It's not easy, but a HC has to figure out as quick as possible his roster's strengths/weakness so he can tailor the style of play/approach to what the team may do best.
agreed.

Any coach can succeed when their talent is better than their opponents. And sure, landing that superior talent is part of coaching.

But a coach can't always (or even often) have better talent, so the coach damn well better scheme his way to bridge the gap.

Everything in your post about adapting to the strengths and weaknesses of your roster is correct.

I'm shocked that this coaching staff (or any coaching staff) doesn't meet every single day to discuss this very issue.

And also adjust in-game tactics. Change defenses. Press or extend pressure. Adjust our lineup and rotations. Adjust tempo, change offensive sets, etc.

Confusing the opponent, even if only for a few seconds, can lead to any easy bucket, forcing a bad shot, or a turnover. Doing that even only a few times during a game can be the difference between winning and losing.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
36634 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

Agree and Green can actually shoot the ball so your spacing wouldn’t need to suffer. You’d be bigger, more athletic, better in the paint and on the boards so why not?
i mean, he went with that lineup so I think he likes it. Just have to worry about point production until Green, Collins, or Chest can get some shots to fall.

And of course it was Green's first game so playing him 20+ minutes was off the table. But seeing how well he played after 2 weeks of practice, I suspect that Green was sneaking off to play hoops during football season.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
32134 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 4:08 pm to
quote:

Agree and Green can actually shoot the ball so your spacing wouldn’t need to suffer. You’d be bigger, more athletic, better in the paint and on the boards so why not?


I don't know how much Green can actually shoot. He only played 8 minutes and didn't take a "shot" beyond two attempts at the rim. That said, his appearance did shed light on what has been painfully obvious to anyone who pays attention...except, apparently, McMahon. The strength of the offense is at the rim and FT line as I discussed above. Forcing an, overall, weak three point shooting team to beat teams from deep is beyond dumb. But that is largely what the approach on offense has been. You're an in-tune enough fan to probably remember this, but go back to the 18-19 season. Early in that year LSU was turning the ball over a bit too much and taking too many threes. At a holiday tournament vs. Florida St. LSU significantly outshot FSU from a FG% standpoint. Yet, they blew a lead and ultimately lost the game for one reason...FSU destroyed them on the glass. Naz Reid played 40 plus minutes and had only 1 rebound.

After that the approach changed. Wade made Reid get in the post instead of masquerading as a 6'10 SG. He placed a huge emphasis on rebounding. You saw the practice drill that was implemented where a coach would literally stand at the FT line and throw the ball as hard as he could off the rim/backboard and force the players to rebound it. What happened was LSU changed its approach offensively. They stopped shooting a bunch of threes because they were not a good 3 point shooting team. But the staff realized KBW was a great athlete who could get offensive rebounds. Reid was big enough to rebound. E. Williams had very little offensive skill, but had great length and a big time motor to rebound (Chest?), even Days wasn't a good three point shooter at that point. But he too could rebound.

The result: LSU became a very efficient offense despite being a really bad 3 point shooting team (302nd in the nation in 3 point FG%). They did it by playing to their strengths. They got to the FT line a ton (26th in FTA per game) and they killed teams on the offensive glass (5th nationally in offensive rebounding %).

This team doesn't have a lot of great 3 point shooters. And they aren't as good as that 18-19 team. But they are not totally devoid of ability. They have the athleticism to win on the offensive glass and they are a really good FT shooting team. Collins is a good offensive rebounder. Chest has an unbelievable motor. Bailey hasn't been a bad rebounder. Green, at minimum, has shown enough size/physicality to battle inside. So why in the hell are you continuing to run this offense where you are taking nearly 25 three point shots a game and turning the ball over in the process? It's mind blowing! Get to the rim! Carter and Sears are both (nearly) 90% shooters. They should be having a contest to see how many FTs each can shoot each game. Instead of all of the constant crying about not having Reed, or Ward, PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS!
This post was edited on 1/27/25 at 4:10 pm
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
59671 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 4:40 pm to
Of course game shape, body changes like weight and muscle, finding rhythm for shots in the game are all unknowns but if you saw him play in HS the kid can stroke. Textbook release, 3pt range, makes contested jumpers. His favorite move was a turnaround fade away from the post but he’d also hit pull up 3s as well. He’s a very skilled basketball player but when I saw him he was about 20lbs lighter so maybe that’s affected his shot.
Posted by xBirdx
Member since Sep 2018
1223 posts
Posted on 1/27/25 at 5:49 pm to
We get a new player?
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