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re: LSU and Florida may discontinue playing each other every year

Posted on 3/5/12 at 9:45 am to
Posted by Hot Carl
Prayers up for 3
Member since Dec 2005
59151 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 9:45 am to
So you think peopke consciously decided to put Bama in because they would be a better draw? Forget the fact that the great majority of voters in the BCS formula had zeeo stake in the ESPN ratings, that makes more sense to you than people simply thinking Bama was better than same-record Oklahoma State? Im sure Bama and Saban's reputation played a subconscious role in that conclusion. But guess what? That was the right conclusion.
Posted by alajones
Huntsvegas
Member since Oct 2005
34487 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 10:01 am to
quote:

Anyone else thinking they may regret forming the super conference?
I regretted it instantly. I didn't see the point. All these other goobers are going to figure it out eventually also.
Posted by alajones
Huntsvegas
Member since Oct 2005
34487 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 10:03 am to
quote:

So you think peopke consciously decided to put Bama in because they would be a better draw? Forget the fact that the great majority of voters in the BCS formula had zeeo stake in the ESPN ratings,
I think ESPN wanted it. and they are the loudest voice in college football. And they influence voters just like the MSM influences voters how they want them to vote.
Posted by Nuts4LSU
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
25468 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:32 am to
quote:

So you think peopke consciously decided to put Bama in because they would be a better draw? Forget the fact that the great majority of voters in the BCS formula had zeeo stake in the ESPN ratings


I think the voters were heavily influenced by Alabama's "name", the media and Saban's begging.

quote:

people simply thinking Bama was better than same-record Oklahoma State? Im sure Bama and Saban's reputation played a subconscious role in that conclusion. But guess what? That was the right conclusion.


By any measurable standard, Oklahoma State had a better season than Alabama did. That is the only valid way to judge teams. The stupid-arse subjective opinion that one is "better", regardless of accomplishments, is the whole problem with the poll system. Hell, some might have thought that, at the time of the bowls, USC was "better" than either team. If a majority of voters did, would USC deserve to be #1 with their 2 losses because they were subjectively thought to be "better"?

No matter how you slice it, Alabama did not deserve to be playing in the NC game. Sure, they did a great job and won the game after being gifted the undeserved opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact that they did not deserve to be there.
This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 11:33 am
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:38 am to
quote:

I didn't see anything I disagreed with in the part of his post you quoted. Are you saying it's insane to believe that Alabama didn't deserve to be in the NC game but was given their slot because of their media appeal? Because that's basically what he said, and it's 100% dead-on accurate.

Whether they deserved it or not is subjective and while media fawning over Saban and Bama as well as the name brand recognizition plays some role, it was not done with the express purpose of promoting Bama over Ok State because the like Bama better. They thought Bama was a better team and that's not unreasonable.

The notion that ESPN will stop the BCS from having a conference winners only playoff because they don't want to keep certain teams, like 2011 Bama out is whats insane.
Posted by Thunder Tiger
Member since Sep 2011
2608 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:40 am to
quote:

By any measurable standard, Oklahoma State had a better season than Alabama did. That is the only valid way to judge teams. The stupid-arse subjective opinion that one is "better", regardless of accomplishments, is the whole problem with the poll system.

No matter how you slice it, Alabama did not deserve to be playing in the NC game. Sure, they did a great job and won the game after being gifted the undeserved opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact that they did not deserve to be there.


This x infinity.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:47 am to
quote:

The voters just flat-out handed the #2 ranking to Alabama when they clearly did not deserve it. That's an intentional act, which is, by definition, not a fluke. It means they will continue to do it. Saban will beg for special treatment, ESPN will champion the cause, and the voters will fall in line with it. There's nothing fluky about that. It's pure corruption, and that's not a one-year phenomenon.


I repeat, everytime I think the rant has sunk to a new level of insanity, we get new gems like this.

Alabama was not #2 in the human polls after 11/5. Had either OSU or Stanford won out, then Alabama would not have been in the BCS CG no matter how much you think ESPN likes them and Saban.

There were 3 BCS teams with 1 loss. Stanford, OSU and Alabama. Stanford's schedule was by far the worst of the 3 and they did not win their conference. They also lost by the largest margin. They have no case, so it boils down to 2 teams. OSU had a better paper resume and a case can be made that they deserved to go. But its simply ignorant and disengenious to say Alabama did not belong. The dominated 11 teams and lost in OT (that meanns after 60 minutes it was a tie) to the #1 team, they have a roster loaded with talent, they have a case to be in the game. Now did their name, coach and rep play a role in getting them in? OK, and maybe if it was Texas or OU instead of OSU, maybe that team would have been in over Bama. None of that means its corrupt or that they will not have a conference only requirement for a 4 team playoff.
This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 11:53 am
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:49 am to
quote:

regretted it instantly. I didn't see the point


the point is called more money and since you don't get any of it, your regret is not a factor.

This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 11:50 am
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:51 am to
quote:

some might have thought that, at the time of the bowls, USC was "better" than either team. If a majority of voters did, would USC deserve to be #1 with their 2 losses because they were subjectively thought to be "better"?


That would be valid if Alabama had more loses than OSU, but they didn't.
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:54 am to
I miss your old avatar.

This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 11:54 am
Posted by Thunder Tiger
Member since Sep 2011
2608 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:54 am to
quote:

Alabama was not #2 in the human polls after 11/5.


You're right, they dropped one spot to #3, ahead of other undefeated teams except Okie State.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 11:55 am to
its more approriate for these types of threads
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 12:00 pm to
quote:

You're right, they dropped one spot to #3, ahead of other undefeated teams except Okie State


False. They were #3 in the BCS because of the computer formulas, which i certainly hope you realize are not influenced by media discussion, but they were #4 in the AP and Coaches polls behind only the 3 remaining unbeaten BCS teams. The unbeaten teams they were ahead of were Boise and Houston. How far do you think a team that was #2, was skull dragging everyone and lost in OT to the #1 teams should drop

LINK
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 12:01 pm to
quote:


No matter how you slice it, Alabama did not deserve to be playing in the NC game.


Alabama proved they deserved to be there by kicking our arse in the Super Dome.

Let the butt hurt go.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

Alabama proved they deserved to be there by kicking our arse in the Super Dome


thats a circular argument, you can't use 20/20 hindsight. I don't disagree that OSU had a better paper resume, but its ignorant to say Bama had no case.

quote:

Let the butt hurt go.


exactly, its over, time to move on. A friend of mine put it this way, he got help to get in in 2007 and Bama got it this year.
This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 12:05 pm
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

thats a circular argument, you can't use 20/20 hindsight. I don't disagree that OSU had a better paper resume, but its ignorant to say Bama had no case.



concur.
Posted by Thunder Tiger
Member since Sep 2011
2608 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

False. They were #3 in the BCS because of the computer formulas, which i certainly hope you realize are not influenced by media discussion, but they were #4 in the AP and Coaches polls behind only the 3 remaining unbeaten BCS teams. The unbeaten teams they were ahead of were Boise and Houston. How far do you think a team that was #2, was skull dragging everyone and lost in OT to the #1 teams should drop


I obviously meant the BCS. The BCS standings are made up in part of voters not just computers, particulary after 2003 when media darling USC got left out. Bama dropping so little in the human polls combined with the computers is what had them at #3.

I think a team that just lost the "game of the century", at home, should drop more than two spots in the human polls, and certainly behind more than one undefeated team at least at that moment in time. And the only really good team Bama had beat up to that point was Arky.
This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 12:22 pm
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59106 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

I obviously meant the BCS


and I clearly stated human polls which most people realize means AP/Coaches polls.

quote:

The BCS standings are made up in part of voters not just computers, particulary after 2003 when media darling USC got left out


They tweeked the formula pretty much every year from 98-03 and the media poll was not used after 2003. you really need to get over your jealousy, LSU would have been in the 2003 regardless.

quote:

think a team that just lost the "game of the century", at home, should drop more than two spots in the human polls


They lost by 3 in OT, but if they should drop further, that means someone else should have been ranked higher. You can't just say, you lost you deserve to drop X number of spots. Its a ranking. The week following the 11/5 game, #5 was Boise, #6 Oregon (lost to the same team Bama did, only by a much greater margin) #7 was OU whou lost at home to a terrible TT team #8 was Arkansas who Bama beat the shite out of. So, how many of those teams should Bama have been behind?

quote:

And the only really good team Bama had beat up to that point was Arky.


Look at the schedules of the teams behind them and see who those teams beat. Hell look at #3 Stanford's schedule at that point, they only good team they beat was USC and I'd bet all kinds of money that if I was tauting USC as a good win, you'd be crying about USC being overrated and amedia darling
This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 12:44 pm
Posted by Thunder Tiger
Member since Sep 2011
2608 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 1:18 pm to
Get over my jealously? As I recall the computer factors favored us and/or OU over USC in 2003, and it was very close, and we and OU got in. Then the next year the computer factors were de-emphasized. I guess that was just a coincidence, huh?

Bama should've been at least behind Boise after 11/5, and possibly even Oregon who'd looked pretty damn good after we beat them. Happy now?

If you don't think the media and voters have their darlings I got news for you - you're the delusional one.
This post was edited on 3/5/12 at 1:20 pm
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 3/5/12 at 1:22 pm to
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