re: Looks like Holly will not be playing for LSU this season

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No knock on you whatsoever, but would you have been as invested in this if it were Tre Bradford last year, and we had 7 other scholarship running backs?

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I have always been very high on Holly. I would be lying if I said it doesn't color my thinking a little. I have been high on him from the beginning, though. I was also high on Tre Bradford but it is certainly easier to lose a guy when your particular position group is loaded.

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We are typically hypocrites and hold our players to lower standards than guys on other teams. We shouldn’t—it’s not rational, but being a fan isn’t really rational. It does stand for “fanatic,” after all.

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I have always said that the easiest way for a guy to rebuild his reputation with me is for him to play for my team

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But I don’t think he’s actually that good. He’s good, but he racked up a ton of those yards against a lot of bad teams. I don’t think he’d ever be a big part of a rotation of a typical LSU RB room

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There is not enough evidence to confirm nor deny your judgment there, it is a perfectly valid opinion even if I disagree with it.

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could certainly be wrong—I’m no scout. But I think my perception of his talent is allowing me to be more objective and less emotionally invested in this than if it were Leonard Fournette. Which is as much of a criticism of me as anyone else, maybe more.

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I think that's just fandom, even the non fanatical fandom. It is probably just human nature if we look at it broadly.

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. But more just an observation of the different lenses people see these things through. I think we can all agree that if his name was Trey Johnson and he was just a regular 19–year old from Union Parish that none of us had ever heard of, there wouldn’t be a single post on this case, even on the OT. But, here we are.

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I think that is fair. I also think every one of these situations is sad. People basically throw their lives away over senseless things.

Good convo Carl, I wish tRant could discuss differences more like this, I'm sure I am part of the problem though

You know who I feel “sad” for? Those players that make good decisions on and off the field and then get hurt with some sort of injury that keeps them out for the season. Definitely not Holly.

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98% of this board would be screaming that he shouldn’t be on the team at all if we’re were playing at bama, florida, A&M, etc

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No doubt. We’re all usually hypocrites when it comes to our fandoms. Which I think is fine, as long as we are self-aware enough to admit it.

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My only point was that if he was involved with the shooting in any capacity (driver, shooter, best friends with shooter, etc) I wouldn’t want him anywheres around the locker room.

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I agree with everything, but the “best friends” part. If Trey was the shooter, the driver, or just in the car he’s legally culpable for something, and if he didn’t immediately come forward to give his entire side of the story (with his attorney) or an alibi showing he was not involved, he should be done at LSU. Depending on his level of involvement, maybe not done with football, but it would probably be best for everybody for him to get a fresh start at a new school.

However, if he just happened to be best friends with the shooter—even if the shooter was trying to murder her—that shouldn’t be on Trey. It’s a small town and a small (ish) school, and he probably ran around with the same guys his whole life. Not too many options of friends at a small place like that. He’s not responsible for his friend’s actions. I understand the argument that he should not still be hanging around people like that when he goes home now that he’s at LSU, but it’s not that easy. And we even know that that’s the case. (If it is, it may a reason for Trey—personally—to find a place out of state and a little further away from home to avoid people with nothing to lose that could bring him down.

But I’d imagine we have more than a handful of players with best friends like that at home. Just like probably every school in the SEC. We all start kicking guys off the teams just because they had some unsavory friends in high school before they even arrived on their college campus, and the level of football being played in the South—and all around college football would quickly diminish.

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He does deserve his day in court, and if he’s completely exonerated from this mess, he deserves to have his spot back on the team

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Agreed. But even if that’s the case, him, his family, BK, and Frank should all sit down and have a conversation about whether it’s in his best future interest. They should have honor his roster spot, but discuss whether or not he wants to come back and have this hanging over his as either questions he may get asked in the media, rumors and people talking about him at school, and how fans (remember we’ve conceded most are hypocrites) of other schools are gonna treat him on social media.

He runs for 100 yards and the winning touchdown against Clemson next year, and his social media will be flooded by Clemson assholes calling him an attempted murderer who got his crime swept under the rug by the good ol boy Louisiana justice system, BK will get shat on even more than he already is—people are just looking for a reason to hate on him. And they should be honest with him about what their vision is for the future at LSU. They’d love to have him, but with what we have coming back and coming in, they currently see him as more of a depth piece who they will give a chance to be more, but without injuries is probably gonna be a 4th or 5th guy in the rotation. Or they could see him as the #2 next year. I don’t know, they just need to be honest with him so he can have all the info available to make the best decision for him.

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but in my completely non expert and uninformed opinion, there’s a very slim chance that that’s the case

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I think that’s fair, and with what we “know,” I’d tend to lean that way myself. But I’m not ready to completely rule out that things aren’t what they seem, this case is confusing, it’s a small town and parish where politics and incompetence may play an unfair part of all this, and he could very well be exonerated. We’ll see.

Alright, that’s enough Trey Holly talk for me today. I’ve got nothing left to add until something new comes out. Guess I’ll catch y’all then.

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Maybe stop there. Why the frick would you try to dig up info on the victim of a shooting?

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I am not denying she was shot. I think there is more to this story just like Holly and his attorney are stating.

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I have always been very high on Holly. I would be lying if I said it doesn't color my thinking a little.

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Again, as long as you—we—are aware of it, no big deal.

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I have always said that the easiest way for a guy to rebuild his reputation with me is for him to play for my team

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No doubt. If Tyrann in ‘11 or Burrow in ‘19 were sitting in jail for double murder the weeks of the Bama games, I might have tied to organize a jail break.

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There is not enough evidence to confirm nor deny your judgment there, it is a perfectly valid opinion even if I disagree with it.

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And that’s fine. I may be completely wrong on him. I am not a scout or expert talent evaluator, and I think RB is super hard to judge because of the different levels of competition they play against. And my opinion may be biased based on some of the people I heard talking about how they thought his game may not translate. But hell, they may have been biased because he beat up on their kids’ team or their alma maters, or whatever. I never saw him play in person.

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I think that's just fandom, even the non fanatical fandom. It is probably just human nature if we look at it broadly.

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Definitely human nature, and why I don’t engage with other teams’ fanbases. There’s no changing anybody’s mind, only getting people more dug in and even more pissed off.

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I think that is fair. I also think every one of these situations is sad. People basically throw their lives away over senseless things.

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I agree. It is sad. I don’t like to see this kind of stuff, no matter where the kids may play. I never shot anybody or did anything with nefarious intent, but a lot of luck was involved with me escaping college without really fricking up my life. And maybe others. And Ive got a teenage son, who is a great kid, never gets in trouble, but plays basketball at a small school, and as a freshman who’s not very assertive around the juniors and seniors on his team, could find himself peer-pressured into a bad situation where something terrible happened that he wasn’t directly responsible for, but he gets in serious trouble by just making the bad decision of getting in the car and being there. And though I wouldn’t expect anybody to feel sorry him, I still think it would be sad.

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Good convo Carl

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Back at you—and most everyone else in this thread.

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I wish tRant could discuss differences more like this

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Me too. But after being here 20 years, I may want to go ahead and guve up on that wish. Pretty clear the genie ain’t granting that one.

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I'm sure I am part of the problem though

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We all are. I’ve mellowed out in my old age, and it’s Friday before game day, I can’t waste any negative energy on something like this. We have REAL things to get riled up about, like LSU getting a running game going against UCLA.

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Maybe she's lying. Maybe she has an agenda. Maybe she's not.

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Whether you think she's unintelligent because she doesn't spell well on Facebook doesn't answer any of those questions.

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I choose to reserve judgment until both sides reveal what happened that night.

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Well no you're not because you're going on facebook looking for things to judge her about.

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I stand by my comments that you and others would rather believe he is guilty than believe that people can lie about what really happened.

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I haven't said anything about Holly or whether he's guilty or innocent.

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Ever heard of the innocence project?

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Yes. I'm positive not once was their defense of a client that someone didn't spell correctly on Facebook.