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re: Les is the best coach that LSU has ever had
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:51 pm to tduecen
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:51 pm to tduecen
quote:
As I stated earlier the anti-Saban resentment is stronger than the anti-Miles resentment...
you find this odd? this is how it should be...and by a much larger margin than it is. The fact that there is so much anti-Miles sentiment is borderline retarded
This post was edited on 2/14/11 at 8:53 pm
1
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:53 pm to Choctaw
I have nothing but respect for him... same as with Les... I know most of the resentment is because he came back to coach at Alabama. Had he chosen any school outside of the SEC people would probably respect him.
This post was edited on 2/14/11 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:58 pm to tduecen
i don't respect him...i don't like him. He was great for LSU but that was in the past...so frick 'em. He coaches bama now which automatically means he is shite to me. The fact that so many on here continue to swallow his balls absolutely disgusts me....but those are usually the same idiots that refuse to give Miles any credit and hate him for no apparent reason other than the fact that his last name ain't Saban.
take note of the posters that have been mysteriously absent from here since the season ended and Miles turned down Michigan. You'll also notice that none of those posters were saying how happy they were that LSU had a great season...why is that?
take note of the posters that have been mysteriously absent from here since the season ended and Miles turned down Michigan. You'll also notice that none of those posters were saying how happy they were that LSU had a great season...why is that?
This post was edited on 2/14/11 at 9:01 pm
Posted on 2/14/11 at 9:01 pm to Choctaw
Honestly if Miles were to ever leave for Michigan Saban would be top of list of coaches I would want here. I can dislike the Alabama team (of course I hate Auburn more) and still have a level of respect for Saban. I do not see what he did as wrong but as a business decision.
I've also stated that I have nothing but respect for Miles and I think he is a great coach. I have him up there with Saban although behind Saban until he wins another SEC Title.
I've also stated that I have nothing but respect for Miles and I think he is a great coach. I have him up there with Saban although behind Saban until he wins another SEC Title.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 9:04 pm to tduecen
quote:
I have nothing but respect for him... same as with Les... I know most of the resentment is because he came back to coach at Alabama. Had he chosen any school outside of the SEC people would probably respect him.
Apparently you misread the topic of this thread as:
"Nick Saban - Career Choices"
Posted on 2/14/11 at 9:26 pm to Choctaw
quote:
take note of the posters that have been mysteriously absent from here since the season ended and Miles turned down Michigan. You'll also notice that none of those posters were saying how happy they were that LSU had a great season...why is that?
I'm not missing the "doom and gloom" patrol.
I find the silence, for the most part, from the "who do you want for the next LSU coach" crowd refreshing.
I'm just enjoying the glow of being back as a Top 8 program and waiting for the spring game to see how the O and QBs look.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 10:31 pm to dreaux
quote:To be fair, Missouri is still tooling along nicely. Might be thinking of Kansas' brief run?
There is many more one hit wonders that can build but not sustain. Or go to another school and not get near the same result. Elite coaches build and maintain, and you can count those on one hand.
I do believe sustaing is harder. I remember wake forest, mizzou, Illinois, Iowa etc all having great years only to go to shite.
TDeucen, Saban may be at the top of your post-Miles list, but I don't think we're on his list of possible next stops. "ya can't go home again", etc. So I give him credit for what he's done, and I'm otherwise through with him. I could only see him going a couple places- Penn St would be a fitting place for him to make another 5 yr run and then retire; or back to the NFL to redeem his name and ease his ego. Cowboys, maybe, if Jerry gave him control, - or New England if Belichick decides to retire.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 1:29 am to bearcat78
I think Les is great. Sure, he came from the George W. Bush school of vocabulary but he sure as hell knows how to make games exciting most of the time, win or lose. People who don't like Les like to say that he only won the NC in '07 because of Saban's recruits as if it's a bad thing, but who cares? The guy still won a national title didn't he? And those same detractors pin the success of this past season on luck, and that also very well may be the case. Again I say to those people: who cares? Al Davis always says 'Just win, baby' (never mind that his own team has had a tough time doing that lately) and Les has certainly done that.
As for the Les vs. Saban comparisons, at least in regards to their respective tenures at LSU, Les has been the better coach. In Les's 6 seasons at LSU, he has gone 62-17 (.785) and is 5-1 in postseason games including one national championship. In Saban's 5 seasons at LSU, he went 48-16 (.750) and went 3-2 in postseason games including one national championship. Les has made some boneheaded calls over the years, but Saban wasn't always the greatest at LSU either.
As for the Les vs. Saban comparisons, at least in regards to their respective tenures at LSU, Les has been the better coach. In Les's 6 seasons at LSU, he has gone 62-17 (.785) and is 5-1 in postseason games including one national championship. In Saban's 5 seasons at LSU, he went 48-16 (.750) and went 3-2 in postseason games including one national championship. Les has made some boneheaded calls over the years, but Saban wasn't always the greatest at LSU either.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 3:59 am to TieWrap
I believe this is going to turn into the old Bear vs. Cholly mac situation. Can anyone else see this happening.?
Posted on 2/15/11 at 5:43 am to ginms
The Bear completely owned Cholly Mac.
I don't see Saban dominating LSU like the Bear did at Bama.
I don't see Saban dominating LSU like the Bear did at Bama.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 5:43 am to ginms
quote:
I believe this is going to turn into the old Bear vs. Cholly mac situation. Can anyone else see this happening.?
Sarcasm right?
Let's see, Cholly (who was a Great coach in his own right) beat Bama (Bear) twice in twelve years; he won the SEC once in 18 years and was 7-6 in bowl games; has a .674 winning % and never won more than 9 games.
Les has beaten Bama 4 times in six years, Saban twice in four years, is 5-1 in bowl games and won a national title; has a .784 winning % and has won 11 games or more in four of six years at the helm.
But I can see why you might see the similarity
Posted on 2/15/11 at 7:11 am to tduecen
quote:4 11+ win seasons in 6 years is the "norm".
I would not say 1 season of 10 wins in last 3 after his championship the "norm" however
quote:If he does establish 10 wins as his "norm", then he will be trailing just behind Miles' normal season. However, as it stands now, Saban's best post-championship season anywhere is 10-3 just outside the top 10 (or at #10). Miles' best post-championship season is 11-2 and #8. That's what we have so far.
Saban will have a chance to establish the "norm" by producing another 10 win season while at Alabama however
And yes, this assessment is heavily influenced by the fact that Saban's entire post-championship history throughout his career is made up of big next-season dropoffs and bolting for another job. If/when he ever establishes a second year post-championship at a program, the assessment could change dramatically. Until it does, however, he's still in the hasn't-shown-it category.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 7:27 am to King Joey
I'd take Saban anyday over Miles. Anyone who says Miles is a better coach than Saban is simply not very objective. Doesn't mean Miles is a bad coach, he just is not as good as Saban.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 7:38 am to King Joey
Some folks have said "why does it matter that Saban left?";
I think at some point in the evaluation, you have to take staying at a program into consideration. Look at college basketball- John Calipari is a great coach, and so is Coach K at Duke. K told the Lakers "thanks but no thanks" a couple years ago, while Calipari has bounced around, leaving instability behind. I'd say coach K is better for the school, regardless of the actual coaching ability.
Taking the basketball comparisons further- Larry Brown revived Kansas basketball, like Saban did LSU football. Brown left and Roy Williams maintained, even improved- like Miles here. Biggest difference- the alma mater, a traditionally great program, came calling- and while Williams went to UNC, Miles turned Michigan down.
So for me in that viewpoint, yeah, Les is the best coach FOR LSU that LSU has ever had- he's won a title, maintained a high level, and has proven he ain't going away until he retires or is fired.
I think at some point in the evaluation, you have to take staying at a program into consideration. Look at college basketball- John Calipari is a great coach, and so is Coach K at Duke. K told the Lakers "thanks but no thanks" a couple years ago, while Calipari has bounced around, leaving instability behind. I'd say coach K is better for the school, regardless of the actual coaching ability.
Taking the basketball comparisons further- Larry Brown revived Kansas basketball, like Saban did LSU football. Brown left and Roy Williams maintained, even improved- like Miles here. Biggest difference- the alma mater, a traditionally great program, came calling- and while Williams went to UNC, Miles turned Michigan down.
So for me in that viewpoint, yeah, Les is the best coach FOR LSU that LSU has ever had- he's won a title, maintained a high level, and has proven he ain't going away until he retires or is fired.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 7:43 am to guttata
Saban is a better coach overall in the grand scheme of things. National Titles 2-1 and SEC Titles 3-1. These next 3-4 years are gonna tell a lot.
Previous post quote above about Saban vs. Miles.
Still, I am predicting LSU over ala. this year 2011 as well as Auburn and winning SEC crown. A lot of people to jump on LSUs band wagon, going to be like 1958 Paul Dietzel (I am not predicting No. 1, only the above).
Previous post quote above about Saban vs. Miles.
Still, I am predicting LSU over ala. this year 2011 as well as Auburn and winning SEC crown. A lot of people to jump on LSUs band wagon, going to be like 1958 Paul Dietzel (I am not predicting No. 1, only the above).
This post was edited on 2/15/11 at 7:44 am
Posted on 2/15/11 at 7:51 am to King Joey
Anyone who believes LSU would be where it is today w/o Saban is smoking dope. There is no history supporting Miles could have elevated the program to where it stands today. Saban has taken over 2 losing teams in the toughest conference in the nation and won 2 national titles. Miles hasn't done it once. Miles supporters need to quit being so sensitive and accept facts....it is not a shot at Miles b/c these are the facts.
To all the people who say its easier to build than sustain answer one question. Is it easier to recruit top talent to a team that is viewed as elite or to a team that is a loser?
Dinardo came in and began locking down the in state talent, Saban followed up on it and Miles has continued it. All should get some credit for where LSU stands today.
To all the people who say its easier to build than sustain answer one question. Is it easier to recruit top talent to a team that is viewed as elite or to a team that is a loser?
Dinardo came in and began locking down the in state talent, Saban followed up on it and Miles has continued it. All should get some credit for where LSU stands today.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 7:53 am to Intrepid
quote:But,
Saban is a better coach overall in the grand scheme of things.
quote:How exactly is the better coach at the stronger program (more recent success, more recent National Championship, higher rated recruiting, etc.) expected to lose to the worse coach at home? If after 4 years of Saban, Bama is still expected to be worse than LSU after 6 years of Miles, how could one conclude that Saban is a better coach? Is there some part of winning a football game on your own homefield that goes beyond the duties of a "better coach"?
Still, I am predicting LSU over ala. this year 2011
Posted on 2/15/11 at 7:59 am to guttata
quote:guttata, not being objective goes both ways. Miles has accomplished more at LSU than Saban did. Miles had a 3 yr run of top 5 finishes in which his NC came, while Saban won a title and otherwise finished outside the top 10. This is at LSU. At Alabama is irrelevant- many people nationally would objectively say that Bama is the more traditional elite program, and the players are just as good as ours here. While it may hurt to say it, he should do better there than here. And yet, the 2 are even head to head. And of the 4 games between the teams, the most likely to change in outcome was in 2008, where Saban's then undefeated national contender was pushed to OT by our floundering pick-6, no defense team.
Anyone who says Miles is a better coach than Saban is simply not very objective
Urban Meyer has lit up LSU with Miles, and so did Richt in 08. Miles has beat them too, but it's always been close. Miles has never been clearly embarrassed by Saban.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 8:01 am to Topwater Trout
quote:Why on Earth would this response be directed at me? There has never been a word in any of my posts suggesting that I think otherwise. On the contrary, I have specifically pointed out that Saban did the rebuilding job at LSU, that he did an outstanding one, and that he was almost certainly the best man in the country for it.
Anyone who believes LSU would be where it is today w/o Saban is smoking dope.
quote:And what could that possibly mean to program that ISN'T a losing team? LSU is not in need of rebuilding, it is in need of maintaining, something Saban HAS NEVER DONE!!! Can you possibly comprehend that? Can you stop insisting that Saban has a perfect record of maintaining dominant programs for decades on end? Can you possibly bring yourself to admit that there is a feat in coaching that Nick Saban has NOT accomplished EVER, and has NEVER shown any ACTUAL EVIDENCE that he EVER WILL? (emphasis for those experiencing difficulty grasping the point)
Saban has taken over 2 losing teams in the toughest conference in the nation and won 2 national titles.
quote:Then explain why coaches who build National Championship programs so rarely ever repeat? Shouldn't Stoops be working on his 10th or 11th National Championship campaign at Oklahoma . . . or at least his 3rd?
To all the people who say its easier to build than sustain answer one question. Is it easier to recruit top talent to a team that is viewed as elite or to a team that is a loser?
Recruiting is of huge significance, but it is not the be-all, end-all of college football success (just ask Mack Brown pre-2005). There are also the huge factors of motivation, focus and pressure. All of these are far easier to manage on a team working to achieve a goal than they are on a team working to achieve a goal again.
Like I said, if sustaining were so much easier than building, then why is it that the vast majority of National Championship-winning coaches have just one National Championship?
Posted on 2/15/11 at 8:02 am to Intrepid
I don't think this will be LSU's year still alot of uncertainty and a very tough non conference schedule. Bottom line for me is Saban left didn't want to be here anymore he is not part of LSU anymore for me. He didn't build LSU as I stated earlier he woke it up with the help of Skip Bertman and Mark Ermmett. The people who like to claim he did it single handily are just as ignorant as people who blindly defend Miles. Miles and Saban are like night and day but hey if you just go by wins and losses he has done better at LSU period. Hopefully that trend continues.
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